9 Act Structure?

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  • 9 Act Structure?

    As I was trying to cram a 40 minute act one into a tidy box under 30 pages (and failing miserably), I started looking around and came across this structure on some thriller novelist's website. Oddly enough, the beats nearly lockstep with my first draft and the Act 1 climax that lingers all the way to page 40 fits nicely in pace with the Act 4 "point of no return" which comes in at around page 40. In fact, the more I looked at it, the more I kept seeing what I had already laid out matching up in most areas, as if my brain was already in tune with these beats.

    Aside from the no rules, write your story, etc, what's the opinion on deviating from the traditional three act structure where specs (and hopefully representation, more work, boatloads of money, chicks, fast cars, etc) come in?

  • #2
    Re: 9 Act Structure?

    I bet those 9 acts are 3 acts broken into smaller pieces.
    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue

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    • #3
      Re: 9 Act Structure?

      Originally posted by christopher jon View Post
      I bet those 9 acts are 3 acts broken into smaller pieces.
      Not exactly. I thought the same thing until I examined it closer. I'll find it real quick and post it.

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      • #4
        Re: 9 Act Structure?

        Originally posted by ChadStrohl View Post
        Not exactly. I thought the same thing until I examined it closer. I'll find it real quick and post it.
        Okay. Here's the short version. Time's are approximations, of course. And I have absolutely no idea why it goes from 0-8.

        Act 0 - 5 minutes
        Act 1 - 5 minutes
        Act 2 - 5 minutes
        Act 3 - 15 minutes
        Act 4 - 5-10 minutes (point of no return is listed to happen at the end of this, which equates to the typical act 1 climax (I assume))
        Act 5 - 30 minutes
        Act 6 - 5-10 minutes
        Act 7 - 15-20 minutes
        Act 8 - 5 minutes

        Here's the website I found this on for a better view.

        http://www.jordandane.com/writers_9.php

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        • #5
          Re: 9 Act Structure?

          Oh god.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 9 Act Structure?

            Run and hide before Mazin releases the Kraken.
            Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue

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            • #7
              Re: 9 Act Structure?

              Originally posted by Craig Mazin View Post
              Oh god.
              I can see you're not a fan. Any particular reason why? And I'm not being resistant, it's just that "Oh god" fails to offer much in the way of insight.

              I had a Kraken for lunch today, but you know what they say... there's always room for more Kraken.

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              • #8
                Re: 9 Act Structure?

                What is this...paint by numbers?

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                • #9
                  Re: 9 Act Structure?

                  Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
                  What is this...paint by numbers?
                  Can we go ahead and presume that the stock answers have already been said to avoid the yes this is a paint by numbers/no this is not a paint by numbers scenario that will yammer on for the next 20 pages?

                  Aside from the list and the specifics of that list...

                  Suppose this structure is a Egg and my script is a Chicken. Well then, I discovered that the Chicken did indeed come before the Egg. Now I'm just curious as to whether or not I have a healthy chicken.... a viable chicken... so when I take that said chicken to KFC, will anyone want to eat that chicken or do some people think this flavor of chicken is unpalatable?

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                  • #10
                    Re: 9 Act Structure?

                    If you're looking for a beat sheet, consult the Save The Cat books. Apply it to your writing. If you disagree with any part of it, alter it to suit your needs.

                    No use in making up all new stuff, or trying to crack one dude's obscure method.

                    Writing is hard. Make it easy for yourself when you can.

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                    • #11
                      Re: 9 Act Structure?

                      Act 0?

                      Here's the simple way to think of it:

                      Act 1: Introduces the conflict.
                      Act 2: Conflict and escalation of conflict.
                      Act 3: Resolution of the conflict.

                      No page numbers - but just don't overstay your welcome. If you have a rock solid 40 page Act 1, great! If it's a boring 15 pages, problem. It's not about how many pages, but what happens in those pages. Lots of new (and even some produced) writers end up with padding up the wazoo or some sort of false conflict or conflict avoidance - and that's a problem. I think no matter how many "acts" you think your script has, it all comes down to...

                      Act 1: You get your cat up a tree.
                      Act 2: You throw rocks at it.
                      Act 3: You get the cat down from the tree.

                      - Bill
                      Free Script Tips:
                      http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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                      • #12
                        Re: 9 Act Structure?

                        I have my own interpretation of what an act is. For me there seems to be clear, identifiable sequences in movies that "feel" like what an act should "feel" like to me. And it helps me. But I ask the OP...

                        Do you know what an act is (to you)? Because if you don't, how can you know how many acts you have?

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                        • #13
                          Re: 9 Act Structure?

                          Bio and Bill -

                          I completely agree about the unnecessity of chic beat sheets, I just thought it was odd that I found one to mirror what I had pretty much already did on my own and had no way of knowing if it was an acceptible standard.

                          I come from the school of thought that the only reason we have acts in the first place was due to Aristotle feeling the need to explain everything. I like to approach a story as Here's who they are and what they want, Here's why that's gonna be difficult, and Here's how they get it (or don't) - so I guess I look at things as 3 major beats (acts) with a bunch of smaller ones meandering through. 3 acts, I suppose. Aristotle was such a showoff.

                          There's also the matter of relooking at those 40 pages in my act 1, because what I see happening is two different conflicts (an external and an internal). The problem is that the external act 1 climax is the page 40 mark, whereas I personally feel that the protag has his internal act 1 climax much earlier. One hits like a hammer, while the other is a feather floating by, but both hold the same meaning in different ways.

                          Bio - I'm with ya mostly. It's not the writing I find hard. The writing is the fun part. It's the "writing to fit the expectations of the market" part that I find somewhat elusive. Like trying to fistfight a tornado. That's why the crippling brainlock when no matter how many ways I tried to shorten my act 1, I couldn't find a way to do it without clipping it so bad it looked like low attention span theatre.

                          But just to be a d!ck. Can we not all agree that 3 acts is essentially painting by numbers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 9 Act Structure?

                            Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
                            I have my own interpretation of what an act is. For me there seems to be clear, identifiable sequences in movies that "feel" like what an act should "feel" like to me. And it helps me. But I ask the OP...

                            Do you know what an act is (to you)? Because if you don't, how can you know how many acts you have?
                            Really good question BDZ. I wish I had a really good answer.

                            I think act breaks can be environmental or character based, but either one represents an unexpected upheaval or perhaps a contradiction in what was previously believed to be the norm, whether that norm is the act 1 norm or the act 2 norm or the act 7 norm if you fly that way. That's the way I view them. The character does something he may have never expected he would do or there is an act of discovery that changes the landscape of the goal, while still pertaining to that goal. I'll also say that they affect the protag on a personal level.

                            Geez. How's that for convoluted? I think I know what I mean.

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                            • #15
                              Re: 9 Act Structure?

                              Can we not all agree that 3 acts is essentially painting by numbers?
                              No.

                              Because it is always about beginning, middle, and end; or, to put it in a more complex fashion, it is about (1) introduction of a disturbance in a previously stable world; (2) development of the disturbance, with examination of responses that will lead to success or failure in reestablishing order; (3) resolution of conflict, with rearrangement of relationships in a new harmony in the old world.

                              During Shakespeare's time and for a while afterwards, the five-act structure was standard. It was artificial, but still genuine. Of course, the five acts could be broken down into three overall organizing units. Acts I and II were our standard Act I; Acts III and IV were our standard Act II; and Act V was our standard Act III. At least, that is how I have seen it most of the time. Remember that Chekhov divided our standard Act II into two parts, so that he saw dramas as having four acts.

                              The person who claims to have developed the idea of the nine-act structure is David Siegel. I do not know if he still has the scheme on the internet (I seem to remember looking for it a few years ago and not being able to find it again), but I had made a copy of it for future reference back when I first saw it. I am not going to explain it in full here at this time. He counts the acts as 0 through 8. The first act, 0, which he identifies with the slogan "Someone Toils Late into the Night," seems to be essentially backstory, the background to the story that is about to develop. The other "acts" are really just mileposts or beats in the story. It is not a bad tool to use as a gauge after you have written script. You can go back and ask yourself if your story has such and such. But I would not recommend trying to write a script with it as a guide. I think it functions better as an after-the-fact check list of structural elements.

                              "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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