Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

    I've always read where subplots should have a beginning, middle, and end. But the latest discussion in our little film group suggests that this isn't always so.

    Using a film that many of us still think is an oldie but a goodie is Midnight Run as an example...

    Two of the subplots that we came up with (feel free to suggest that these aren't really subplots or if there are better examples of subplots in this film) are DeNiro's scene with his ex-wife (with daughter) and Grodin trying to escape from DeNiro.

    The wife/family theme subplot was just one scene and Grodin trying to escape was also just a few scenes. They weren't really developed to any extent.

    So is the beginning-middle-end model for subplots not as set in concrete as its been stated all along?

  • #2
    Re: Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

    I don't think of them as sub-plots at all. That's not why they're there.

    Why do you think they're there?

    What would happen to the movie if they weren't?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

      It's not that they HAVE to be complete, but do ask yourself what will the viewers think when the film wraps.

      Will they wonder whatever happened to so and so and the tiff they were having with the kid down the street? It was left unresolved. Do they even care?

      I personally don't make a habit of that, unless I want to leave a 'what if' on the audience' mind, which can be a good thing. Certainly in eposodic writing.

      In your garden-variety narrative, though, a subplot that plays heavy on your MC should be resolved either completely, or to some degree that an audience can more or less close the book on. In my opinion, treat it like a second film running just below the main feature. If you are left holding strings, then resolve it.


      a

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

        I think they serve different purposes.

        The DeNiro backstory is there for character. It shows us a personal side, reveals a lot about what kind of man he is (he's made mistakes, he's been afraid to confront them, still has a lot of anger, he's been living in a sort of purgatory since he left Chicago, but still despite all this he won't take his daughter's money).

        Just the decision to go see them is a difficult one for him, facing his worst mistakes and regrets when he's at rock bottom and has nowhere else to turn). The sequence doesn't have a completely "happy" ending, but it is cathartic for him, he really reaches a new level of peace after that. He had his career as a cop, then a career as a bounty hunter, and after facing his family I really get the feeling he's moving on to the next act in his life. Also, in terms of purpose served, Grodin's character reaches a new level of understanding of DeNiro's demons, which in turn strengthens their own relationship.

        Grodin trying to escape DeNiro is just an aspect of the main plot. Grodin needs a goal. His goal is to get away. DeNiro's goal is to make sure Grodin doesn't get away. That's the dynamic that drives the movie.

        So many great stories intertwining to weave this plot. Marvin's goals. Pantoliano's goals. Jerry and his donuts. The inept hitmen. Serrano's fears. Mosley's mission. They all come together. Including DeNiro's past and Grodin's quest to get away. I end up rooting for everyone of these guys when I'm watching them.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

          Originally posted by socalwriter1 View Post
          The wife/family theme subplot was just one scene and Grodin trying to escape was also just a few scenes. They weren't really developed to any extent.

          So is the beginning-middle-end model for subplots not as set in concrete as its been stated all along?
          The scene with Jack Walsh's ex-wife and daughter isn't a sub-plot about the ex-wife and daughter, they are part of the exploration of Walsh's relationships overall. Jack doesn't have a successful relationship - personal or business - with anyone throughout the entire movie. This question is 'resolved' at the end of the movie with the airport scene when Jack and Mardukas manage to connect and both of them manage to hold a principle above their own personal interests. Ironically this isn't how George Gallo had originally written the ending but it works really well.

          I'm not sure why you describe Mardukas trying to escape as a sub-plot - it's part of the central storyline. Although these things are not set in concrete, not everything needs to be completely resolved. In some storylines things are left unresolved for different reasons, sometimes for the audience to imagine what will happen, sometimes to make a statement that there are times in life when things are unresolved. And there are things in stories that do need to be resolved, and things that don't.

          I'm glad you chose Midnight Run as an example for the question because it's a brilliant script and fantastically entertaining movie and George Gallo is a great guy.
          "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

            I consider the daughter/ex-wife to be a subplot. It tells Jack's backstory & gives depth to his char, but if they took out the family, & him going back home, the audience wouldn't have missed it too much. He could have just talked about what happened. The family had nothing to do with his goal of getting Duke back to LA. I do think it was handled well & glad they kept the family in. I don't think it was under developed. It had an emotional punch ending of the daughter wanting to give Jack money & him turning it down.

            Agree with others--Duke trying to escape is not a subplot. That's woven into the main story.

            MIDNIGHT RUN is put together really well which is why it gets mentioned on SWing boards. The great supporting chars-- Joe Pants, the other bounty hunter, Mosley-- are a huge part of why it's so entertaining.

            "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

            ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

              CraigM -- I agree with BenJ in that we get to see that DeNiro wants a "normal" life and that he would get a start in that direction with opening up his own cafe with the money when he turns Grodin in. And that scene with the wife (and daughter) shows us that very clearly. Without it, we lose that dimension of DeNiro.

              And the thread of having Grodin escape shows that he's not a pushover despite his vocation.

              DavidK -- this film has stood the test of time; what else can a film ask of itself?

              According to the responses so far, it seems that we are mistaken that these two examples are subplots. So what do you suggest are the subplots for this film then? And more importantly, why?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

                Originally posted by stvnlra View Post
                I consider the daughter/ex-wife to be a subplot. It tells Jack's backstory & gives depth to his char...
                I don't want to complicate the discussion for the sake of it, but your answer raises a question: what do you define as a sub-plot? Usually a sub-plot is a parallel story that runs counter to or interacts with the primary story. As the OP puts it, sub-plots have a beginning and middle and end, i.e. dramatically they are complete with a set-up and usually a resolution. Jack's visit with his wife and daughter is a scene, that's all, and as you say it adds depth and back-story to Jack's character, and it serves as a step in the plot. But you can't describe a single scene like that as a sub-plot. Nothing else happens to either of those characters, there is no secondary story involving them.

                If you categorize the scene with Jack's wife and daughter as a sub-plot, then you also need to categorize the scene with the Indians as a sub-plot, the scene with the counterfeit bank notes as a sub-plot, and the scene where Mardukas fakes fear of flying as a sub-plot. All these scenes are progressions in plot which add depth to the characters, their backgrounds, and the primary story, but they are not sub-plots.

                Re. socalwriter1's question about what the sub-plots are, they are the secondary stories involving the FBI, Dorfler and the bond agent. They run through the movie, interact with the main story and complicate it, and they have resolutions within themselves.

                Yes, this movie has stood the test of time and it's such a wonderful script it should be studied by any aspiring screenwriter.
                Last edited by DavidK; 10-05-2012, 01:06 AM. Reason: c
                "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

                  First of all, in my humble opinion a subplot is, as it name indicates, a story 'beneath' the main story and to discern anything else, such as 'rules' as to what would qualify, how many scenes, mentions, etc, is a waste of time.

                  What is the disbanding of the Galactic Senate in Star Wars A New Hope? It is only one line of dialogue. Is it less important than Uncle Owen's sequence? Or a fundamental shift that allows Tarkin to blow up an entirely planet?

                  I guess what I mean to say that this argument is unimportant. Execution is what is important. Definitions are only of use to film school curriculums.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

                    Sorry for the bungled last sentence.

                    I guess what I've meant to say is that the execution of a script is what is important and everything else is immaterial.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

                      We were just discussing this script in class. I love the movie too. I still comes on the premium cable channels regularly.

                      I always thought one of the major subplots of the movie was Mardukas always trying to escape Walsh's custody and or convince him to why him stealing from the mob was to beget the mob - aka he wasn't being greedy. I mean he spends most of his time trying to convince Walsh of this (Mardukas knows jail equals murder by the mob, right?). Doesn't this entire situation have a beginning, middle, and an end? I, of course, could be totally off about this.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Undeveloped but effective subplots -- Midnight Run

                        Originally posted by decarbe View Post
                        I always thought one of the major subplots of the movie was Mardukas always trying to escape Walsh's custody ...
                        I don't understand why this would be considered a sub-plot - the main through story is Jack trying to deliver Mardukas and Mardukas trying not to get delivered - everything hangs off this central storyline.
                        "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X