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  • Structure

    My first six screenplays follow structure fairly well (inciting incident and all), but then I found an indie producer/director that has me writing a script for him where the structure is much less important - so I'd say my seventh script follows structure at about the 65-70% level.

    I have a story that's been burning inside me, more artsy, and I would say it has three acts, but definitely no inciting incident and all that (or if it does, it isn't revealed until much later)....

    My question is: Does it matter? As I've learned from my seventh script experience, some producers/directors don't give a damn. But with a spec that I would want to sell, does it matter?

    Thank you!

    P.S. If you don't know what I mean by the structure, I tend to write towards the Save the Cat beat sheet.
    www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

    http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
    http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

    Twitter: @JustinMSloan

    Want a free book?

  • #2
    Re: Structure

    This is a tough one, though I'd wager most pros would say write that burning story. A burning story is going to get a lot further than a structurally sound one with no passion behind it. Aiming for both is great, but is it essential?

    I understand your restraint, because you wonder if people are going to get it, not living in a conventionally structured world. Every time I've tried to deviate, I've felt forced right back into the structure that my reps, execs, the world are familiar with - but I believe that is my own shortcoming as a writer.

    Truly great writers tell the reps, execs, the world what they want to read, not the other way around.

    Is it (your story) compelling enough that people will stay with it as it unfolds? If every moment of it compels people to read on, I say go for it.

    But everybody thinks their sh-t is compelling at first. Then comes the rewrite.

    Good luck with it!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Structure

      If it's great, none of that crap matters. Tell the story as your characters need it to be told, don't try to make it fit into a template. Make the characters compelling, the action original, the hook intriguing, the dialogue sparkling, the description clever; make the plot drive forward, and make the reader CARE about it. Don't worry about which cats Syd Field says to save from which trees, and where act one ends and two begins. All that is for the analysts, not the filmmakers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Structure

        I'd say there's no one answer to that, and you've kind of answered it yourself. Different scripts work for different gatekeepers and buyers.

        Some industry people trust their gut -- the emotional experience they get from your screenplay whether or not you conform to standard structure. Some of them, in fact, may like your screenplay even better if they find it works emotionally without being what they'd consider cookie-cutter. But there are also those who may be cautious about recommending anything too non-conformist. They may not be sure it's any good if it doesn't follow the rules. Often it depends on what company a reader works for and what kind of movie they are looking to make at the time. You need to be the expert about whether or not your screenplay works and do your best to get it to those most likely to appreciate it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Structure

          All films have structure. Not all follow the 3 act structure, but all have structure. To me structure = Focus. Okay, you don't have an inciting incident all that jargon. Fine. But what are you focusing on for the first thirty minutes then?

          I know we all want to write movies like Diner and Pulp Fiction. But do you realize how great of a writer you need to be if for the first thirty pages these characters are all kinda gonna socialize and mingle with each other?

          The three act structure works because it forces motion in your story. There are breaking points and climaxes where you story should be at a certain temperature. Those breaking points: Inciting Incident, mid point, act climaxes. It allows you to see where you need to be story wise by certain points in the script.

          People use the 12 sequence method. You can break the structure down and let a story unfold in 12 ten minute sequences.

          Really every scene should tell a story. Characters should always have motivations that are in conflict with each other. A scene between them is like two cars colliding head on. The wins and losses are gonna be small sometimes, very small. But they should still be there.

          You never want to look at things like you are gonna create something with no structure. That's like saying you wanna write a story that goes in a million directions at once and never makes a point.

          And be careful of the word 'Structure' people use it interchangably with two very different meanings.

          Meaning#1 - the ratio or number of parts that you divide your story into so that you get the best dramatic effect

          Meaning#2 - The events needed to unfold that will complete your character's arc. Going from Greedy to Generous. Deceitful to truthful. Maybe Pure to corrupt in some cases. It's hard to get a greedy protag generous. Some special events are gonna have to take place for that to be believable. What are they?

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          • #6
            Re: Structure

            Thank you, buy what I mean is structure in the
            Heroes journey sense. I def have a structure in that the story is divided up and has a pattern of sorts and an arc of the character.
            www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

            http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
            http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

            Twitter: @JustinMSloan

            Want a free book?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Structure

              Write it already.

              I bet when it's finished it'll be easy to see a big fat inciting incident, whether you knew you'd put it there or not. And all the other elements will appear. This is the trick of these structure templates - they're far better at describing what's already there than helping to create something in the first place. So long as the characters are good and we care about what they're doing, we'll keep reading.
              My stuff

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              • #8
                Re: Structure

                Structure can be learned by reading, sitting in the classroom or talking with gurus. Content can not be learned. That's why Robert McKee, not Oliver Stone, is the one teaching you how to put a good story together. Oliver Stone doesn't have to. He knows content.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Structure

                  Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                  Structure can be learned by reading, sitting in the classroom or talking with gurus. Content can not be learned. That's why Robert McKee, not Oliver Stone, is the one teaching you how to put a good story together. Oliver Stone doesn't have to. He knows content.
                  Not just content. Structure is also innate to a story writer. That's what makes it a story and not just a series of events. That's why the "gurus" nearly always "reverse engineer" others' successful stories, instead of "designing" and writing their own.
                  STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Structure

                    Originally posted by Joaneasley View Post
                    I'd say there's no one answer to that, and you've kind of answered it yourself. Different scripts work for different gatekeepers and buyers.

                    Some industry people trust their gut -- the emotional experience they get from your screenplay whether or not you conform to standard structure. Some of them, in fact, may like your screenplay even better if they find it works emotionally without being what they'd consider cookie-cutter. But there are also those who may be cautious about recommending anything too non-conformist. They may not be sure it's any good if it doesn't follow the rules. Often it depends on what company a reader works for and what kind of movie they are looking to make at the time. You need to be the expert about whether or not your screenplay works and do your best to get it to those most likely to appreciate it.
                    +1. And, if you need to refer to somebody's structure guide/model/template with the "inciting incident and all that" to know whether or not your story works, you're already in trouble. You need to be able to follow your instincts and your passion, not necessarily in that order.
                    "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Structure

                      I'll never understand why people try to apply The Hero's Journey to stories that aren't about heroes. It's just one of many narrative templates.

                      Pick the structure that suits your tale. Don't force the story into a cookie-cutter mold.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Structure

                        Cool, thank you - I am now 20 pages into it and am going with what my gut tells me, so here goes!
                        www.JustinSloanAuthor.com

                        http://www.CreativeWritingCareer.com
                        http://www.MilitaryVeteransinCreativeCareers.com

                        Twitter: @JustinMSloan

                        Want a free book?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Structure

                          Originally posted by stainjm View Post
                          Cool, thank you - I am now 20 pages into it and am going with what my gut tells me, so here goes!
                          ya done yet?
                          • Go and do likewise gents..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Structure

                            Originally posted by Armak View Post
                            I'll never understand why people try to apply The Hero's Journey to stories that aren't about heroes.
                            Because you don't need a hero. Characters populate Ordinary Worlds, move into New Worlds and so on.
                            Story Structure 1
                            Story Structure 2
                            Story Structure 3

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