Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

[lefecious]

Say you're writing a movie that takes place in feudal japan, and all the characters are japanese. Does it seem dumb to have the characters speak english? If it's being made for an american audience, anyway.

I've seen a few different ways that writers have tackled this. Some, have the movie start out in the foreign language, and use subtitles, but then there is like a transition scene where they suddenly switch to english, expecting the audience to follow along and suspend disbelief.

The other option is to have them just speak english from the start, but that doesn't seem authentic either.

And of course there's the worst option, just having them speak the foreign language the whole time and subtitle it, but that's weird, it's like you're an american that made a foreign film. Not to mention that your words may lose something in the translation.

So what do you guys think is the best way to handle this?

[hscope]

Re: Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

It's a shame you consider subtitles to be the worst option, when this is probably the best and only method that would work in the scenario you describe. It's certainly the best way for audiences to fully experience the cultural setting.

But I can see that the US audience aversion to subtitles is a concern.

[Jon Jay]

Re: Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

If you don't want to do it in Japanese then I'd just have them speaking English. The Dragon Tattoo remake is still set in Sweden, signs etc in Swedish, they all speak English. Didn't seem weird.

Personally I'd avoid a transition from Japanese to English - it would draw attention to the fact that this is a film, plus deciding when and how to do it would become a big deal.

[cshel]

Re: Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

Unless you're a native speaker, or completely fluent in Japanese, how could you write it in Japanese anyway? Have the entire script professionally translated? Do you know that culture really well?

Also, if you are an unknown writer, feudal Japan will be a hard sell in English, let alone Japanese. Unless it's a brilliant martial arts film. But if that's your passion, go for it. You never know.

Check out films like The Last Emperor and Memoirs of a Geisha. I believe those were in all English. Empire of the Sun had English speaking characters, but did the Japanese speak English to them? I'm sure there are others. I don't remember seeing a film where the language suddenly switched over.

[Rhodi]

Re: Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

You're putting the cart before the horse here. The fact of the matter is that the film you are describing is unlikely to ever be made by a Hollywood studio. Would they make a film set in Japan with a largely Japanese cast? Yes. Absolutely Would they do so without a single Western character in it? I highly doubt it.

That said, I would recommend writing in English without subtitles.

2012 Nicholl Fellow and Black Lister James Dilapo's script "Devils at Play" was set in Russia, with an entirely "Russian" cast. The script was written in unsubtitled English throughout (apart from the occasional Russian word thrown in here or there). The difference with this example is that the cast could be made up of name American or British actors.

[Grandmaster]

Re: Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

Compare a European setting to an Asian: the difference is the actors' visuals.

In Russia or Sweden, American and/or British performers could play the parts, speaking entirely in English and not many would care about this minutia.
Set a flick in Indonesia or Japan with the same faces, pretending that they're natives and everyone's going to be scratching their heads.

My advice would either be to write a flick for Japanese/global audiences and try to interest a Japanese production company (and let them worry about translating it if/when there's a sale), or introduce a couple of Westerners in leading roles.

[Jon Jay]

Re: Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

I think this is a moo* point - it's like saying you're about to get a million dollars, should you have it in 10s or 20s.

Assuming this is a spec, you've got a wildly expensive period epic to be filmed with a non-white cast, probably in another country - and if various accounts are to be believed, Japan is a nightmare for Western crews to film in - I'm not sure you should be worrying about this.





* (c) Joey from Friends.

[karsten]

Re: Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

Say you're writing a movie that takes place in feudal japan, and all the characters are japanese. Does it seem dumb to have the characters speak english? If it's being made for an american audience, anyway.

Not at all. I think this is a perfectly accepted convention. It's no different than having Spartans or Romans speaking modern English -- or even feudal Scots speaking modern English.

The only thing that would make it dumb is if the characters speak English with a Japanese accent. Just have them speak normal, unaccented English, and the audience will go along with the convention. They won't give it a second thought.

Some, have the movie start out in the foreign language, and use subtitles, but then there is like a transition scene where they suddenly switch to english, expecting the audience to follow along and suspend disbelief.

I think this is a terrible technique that creates an unnecessary moment of disruption at the time of the shift. Everyone will go along with the convention of using English right from the beginning of the film. It won't throw them unless you draw attention to it.

just having them speak the foreign language the whole time and subtitle it

This was bravely done by Mel Gibson in two movies, but I think it's unnecessary. Just go with English.

[Fortean]

English Dialog By Non-English Speakers

It's an American prejudice: Everyone speaks English. And, subtitles are difficult to read, (for Yanks), so Hollywood remakes excellent foreign films into mediocre American films with Hollywood actors, (for example, Leconte's L'HOMME DU TRAIN was remade, in English, as MAN ON THE TRAIN, with Donald Sutherland; yet, both of the French actors in the original film, Jean Rochefort and Johnny Halladay speak English).

Feudal Japan? I'd recommend a look at the television mini-series SHOGUN, (available on YouTube), with a few Japanese characters speaking English dialog to an English character. The screenplay was translated into Japanese, (for the Japanese dialog); but, Toshiro Mifune helped to render the contemporary translation into the dialog spoken during the feudal period.

"The Japanese characters speak in Japanese throughout, except when translating for Blackthorne. The original broadcast did not use subtitles for the Japanese portions. As the movie was presented from Blackthorne's point of view, the producers felt that 'what he doesn't understand, we [shouldn't] understand.'" ~ Wikipedia

If your story only involves Japanese characters, in old Japan, I'd suggest the use of subtitles, (after a very careful translation of the dialog to the correct formalities of speech used in that period).

[Bill WiggleArrow]

Re: Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

It seems to be a (dumb) convention to use English but to ensure they're speaking with BRITISH accents. In order to give it a tinge of foreign flavor, I suppose.

[Fortean]

English (With Received Pronounciation)

It seems to be a (dumb) convention to use English but to ensure they're speaking with BRITISH accents. In order to give it a tinge of foreign flavor, I suppose.

Je ne sais quoi?

"Largely speaking, Wyler cast the Romans with British actors and the Jews with American actors to help underscore the divide between the two groups. The Romans were the aristocrats in the film, and Wyler believed that American audiences would interpret British accents as patrician." ~ BEN-HUR @ Wikipedia

"Although there is nothing intrinsic about RP that marks it as superior to any other variety, sociolinguistic factors have given Received Pronunciation particular pretige in parts of Britain. It has thus been the accent of those with power, money and influence since the early to mid 20th century, though it has more recently been criticised as a symbol of undeserved privilege."

"The word received conveys its original meaning of accepted or approved - as in 'received wisdom'. The reference to this pronunciation as Oxford English is because it was traditionally the common speech of Oxford University; the production of dictionaries gave Oxford University prestige in matters of language. The extended versions of the Oxford English Dictionary give Received Pronunciation guidelines for each word."

"Traditionally, Received Pronunciation was the 'everyday speech in the families of Southern English persons whose men-folk [had] been educated at the great public boarding-schools' and which conveyed no information about that speaker's region of origin before attending the school."

~ Received Pronunciation @ Wikipedia

[Biohazard]

Re: Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

If you don't want to do it in Japanese then I'd just have them speaking English. The Dragon Tattoo remake is still set in Sweden, signs etc in Swedish, they all speak English. Didn't seem weird.

That's because English is taught in Swedish schools.

Many Swedish people I know speak better English than most Americans.

[stainjm]

Re: Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

That's because we don't speak English, we speak American. A slow evolution...

[christopher jon]

Re: English Dialog By Non-English Speakers

It's an American prejudice: Everyone speaks English.

Which is why most big films are dubbed in the native language of the country they are playing in. Go to China, Russia or Germany.

Most common people (not film snobs) like to watch and listen to movies in their native language. It's not just Americans.

[cshel]

Re: Film set in foreign country, best way to get them speaking English

I once went to see an American movie while in France. It wasn't dubbed, they just added French language subtitles. The funny thing was, I was so used to reading subtitles, if they were there, that even though the movie was in English, I automatically kept trying to read the subtitles, and I don't speak French. It then became very entertaining to see how certain things, like American slang, were translated into French. A very schizophrenic film experience.