Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

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  • Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

    Hello everyone! First time poster long time stalker. I wanted to begin by saying please forgive any typos as I'm writing this from my iphone. Second, I love this board and the supportive community that has formed here. Now with all the ass kissing out of the way on to my actual question:

    I've been writing for awhile, taken numerous creative writing, screenwriting and filmmaking classes but I've drifted away from my creative peers over the years (to the point where I've moved 2 states away). So currently I only have friends who are not in the business to read my current work and rewrites. I was just curious to what questions do you all ask them for feedback? I usually ask "so what do you think?" And get the standard "I liked it" so I started asking them to tell me what they didn't like about it? Could you picture it while you read it? What would you change? What didn't make sense? Did you notice anything inaccurate?

    Is this a good strategy and what are some other questions that I should be asking that would actually help or justify a rewrite?

    Thank you in advance,
    Kerry

  • #2
    Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

    in my experience, there is virtually nothing to be gained by asking people who are unfamiliar with screenwriting to read your work.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

      Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
      in my experience, there is virtually nothing to be gained by asking people who are unfamiliar with screenwriting to read your work.
      I disagree with this.

      At some point, you will definitely want "notes" (FYI, Kmark, "coverage" refers to the internal, written analysis of a script from an agency or production company) from people with strong Hollywood experience. And you'll definitely want to cultivate such trusted opinions.

      But, in the meantime, I feel there is value to be gleaned from the good, old-fashioned consumers of literature and film. It's nice to get notes from people who aren't weighed down with screenwriter theory. People who can give notes without putting on their "If I was writing this..." or "If I was producing this..." hat.

      I run all my early drafts through non-screenwriting cohorts. Some of the questions I ask:

      "Was there any moment that your attention drifted?"
      "Did anything seem familiar, like you'd seen it before in another movie?"
      "What did you think of (Character X)?"
      "How was the pace? Did it feel like we were in any location for too long?"
      "Did (Plot Point X) make sense?"
      "Would you want to see this movie?"
      "Do you have any questions? Like why so-and-so did such-and-such?"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

        I agree with JoeBanks.

        What you might want to do is join a site that has a community that reads each other's scripts. Meaning if you read a script and provide feedback, another writer will do the same for you. It's been a while, but you might try Trigger Street or Talentville, there have to be others.

        You might find someone here willing to swap scripts. You might consider a recognized coverage service, or hiring a consultant. There are a few people here that provide notes at a reasonable fee.
        Best,
        FA4
        "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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        • #5
          Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

          While you might be better off in getting read and critiqued by other writers I'd have to say having non-writers read your work is important too.

          Why? They are the actual audience and their opinion matters. They might not be able to help with character motivation issues etc but if they feel something from reading your work you know you're on the right track.

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          • #6
            Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

            First question, or one of the first you might ask one not so familiar with screenwriting format is, how long did it take you to read it/finish it. If they couldn't stop reading it, either due to the level of your writing or wanting to find out what happens, you're well on your way.
            " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

              I think it can be helpful to have some non-screenwriters reading your work.

              I wouldn't ask them a big list of questions. First, it's putting a burden on them because for the most part, they won't know how to answer those questions. Two, you have to be very careful that you're not giving them leading questions, such that they over-analyze aspects that might've worked just fine for them if they didn't think they were supposed to find problems with them.

              I would never ask them something open-ended, like "what would you change,- because this is my story and I'm not interested in hearing what story they might like to make out of it, given that they don't know how to tell a story.

              I try to find out three things from my non-pro readers: is the story clear, does it keep their interest to the end, and does it make them feel something.

              If they are confused about some stuff, ask them to tell you what. Sometimes their explanations are very revealing, because their explanation of what they think happened may be entirely different than what you meant to happen.

              If they lost interest or became bored at some point, ask them where.

              If it's a comedy but they didn't think it was funny, a horror or thriller and they were never tense or scared, a tragedy and they never felt sad... you've got a problem. Or, more accurately, you have a problem if several people report that they are not feeling the emotions your script ought to evoke. Because if it's only one person, it may be that person just doesn't like your sort of script.

              However, the above will only work if your non-pro readers are completely honest with you. And that is the biggest problem with them. Generally they are friends or family members and they don't want to say anything negative that may hurt their relationship with you. But you'll realize pretty quickly if that's the case.

              If you can find a small group of honest readers, they can definitely help you determine if your story is on the right track or not. Of course, it's up to you as the writer to figure out how to identify the problems in your writing that are leaving readers confused, bored, and/or emotionally unaffected.

              My website:www.marjorykaptanoglu.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

                Originally posted by Kmark100 View Post
                Hello everyone! First time poster long time stalker.
                I think you meant "lurker." I hope so.

                It's incredibly difficult to get anything useful from the average person. You need to find a creative or a writer's group. A creative person with a professional mind-bent craves criticism. We really want to know what works and what doesn't.

                That being said, you can post it here 5 pages at a time. You can put a PDF file online and link to it and ask for feedback. You can find a "please read my pages" area on Reddit.

                My best critics are my daughter who is also a writer and a friend who is a composer.
                wry

                The rule is the first fifteen pages should enthrall me, but truth is, I'm only giving you about 3-5 pages. ~ Hollywood Script Reader

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                • #9
                  Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

                  When I finished my first attempt at a book, I asked friends and family to read it. The reaction was mute. I knew it/I needed a kick up the arse, but wasn't getting it.
                  I gave it to a friend of my ex girlfriend. The best thing I've ever done! She has slammed it, asking if I knew what sentences were... She's really ripped into it. But for the right reasons of helping to improve it, she just not scared to say what she thinks. My friends are.

                  I've found script writing easier. I've sent it to someone else who I know will not be nice, but my questions are limited as they will not understand script. 1/ Can you imagine the scene easily.
                  2/ Does the dialogue sound natural.

                  A strange question, but its fascinating to know. I've asked my friends to tell me which Hollywood star would fit each character.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

                    First thing I do is give it to my wife. I ask if the story itself makes sense. That's it. Eh, she'll also proofread a bit.
                    She really won't do much other than say whether it follows A to B, etc. but in the beginning, that is the most important thing to me.
                    Plus, it keeps her involved in the process.
                    After that, I definitely want to get actual writer feedback. I've gotten some great notes from people on these boards. Those are the notes I base changes on.
                    I agree with both arguments. A non-writer can still give useful feedback, but writers can point out structural, theme and format issues.
                    SL35
                    Potent dreamer. Newb disclaimer.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

                      I have a range of readers, from professional writers to my brother-in-law, who, as far as I can tell, never reads anything else. I don't give equal weight to their opinions, but I always get useful comments from them all.
                      TimeStorm & Blurred Vision Book info & blog: https://stormingtime.com//

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                      • #12
                        Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

                        From Margie

                        ...

                        However, the above will only work if your non-pro readers are completely honest with you. And that is the biggest problem with them. Generally they are friends or family members and they don’t want to say anything negative that may hurt their relationship with you. But you’ll realize pretty quickly if that’s the case.

                        ...
                        + 1 as they say. I've noticed this as well. Those not familiar with all this can sense how much effort went into writing it and hesitant to be critical. Especially when they know they don't know much about screenwriting altogether. Thus, you have to consider carefully the amount of weight to give this sort of feedback. But I do agree that it's helpful to try and identify whether they were engaged in the story, could visualize scenes and whether their interest kept them turning the page. E.g., how long it took to get through it.

                        I've also noticed that once they learn its a "screenplay" it's most likely the first they've ever seen and they can't wait to tell you who they see playing the role for various characters. Or, they ask who you will have play the role. Which is sort of funny if you think of it, because even if successful, it's the last thing fledgling writers have any control over. Other than suggestive writing, of course.

                        Above and beyond all though, you gotta be very grateful for their time 'cause reading a script's a totally different kind of beast for most. And that's even if they're an avid reader....
                        Last edited by MJ Scribe; 01-13-2014, 08:42 PM. Reason: when don't I edit a post?
                        " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

                          I find it very helpful.

                          I get reads from non-screenwriting friends and family that are very helpful in terms of story and character. My brother, who's in post production (TV), and isn't put off by the format, can be counted on to not hold punches. In fact, he can be brutal but since we're sibs we don't worry about hurting feelings. He's got a great sense of story.

                          Ditto on my almost-hubs who's an artist/sculptor and tends to give great notes on visual descriptions and has an ear for dialogue. And since he wants honest feedback from me on his art, he returns the favor on my writing.

                          What I find with other writers giving me notes, there's a concern about stepping on my feelings so punches are held. Another issue, sometimes other writers are so used to their own voice and style of writing, they focus on how mine differs from theirs. And I'm probably guilty of the same. But this type of style/voice feedback doesn't always improve a script.

                          I find non-writers can see things those of us who write scripts may overlook.

                          One time I gave a script to a woman who was the same age, and living the same single lifestyle, as my co-leads (half sisters). I wanted to hear her thoughts since I haven't been single in quite some time. She struggled a little with the script format at first but then she gave me great perspective on the single life, right now. Her notes helped me infuse realism.

                          She also said that at the end she wanted to go have a drink with my characters because she felt a kinship with them. I asked her to expand on that and it was eye opening. It taught me a lot about what gets the average audience to really like your characters in more than a "save the cat" way.

                          Overall, if you have people willing to read your stuff, no matter what their resume may be, it can help.
                          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                          • #14
                            Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

                            Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                            I find it very helpful. I find non-writers can see things those of us who write scripts may overlook.
                            Yes. They have the freshest of 'fresh eyes.'
                            Last edited by Clint Hill; 01-22-2014, 04:01 AM.
                            “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

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                            • #15
                              Re: Requesting coverage from non-professionals and non-readers

                              I have just one friend I'll ask to read pages. He's not a writer, but I know him to be an avid reader of novels, and a guy who is generally extremely creative.

                              He'll point out areas he thinks are problematic, but as a friend, I think he does pull his punches. Tough to find that person who knows good writing and is also brutally honest.

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