Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Cyfress
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    See Hans, this is where I think you misuse the word structure. You say, structure and substance have nothing to do with each other and I think that is very false. Structure is the wrestling with the dramatic question for the reader, it has everything to do with substance.

    What you are talking about is sequence, and you are right sequence has nothing to do with substance which is why sequence guarantees you nothing. I love the movie Goodfellas, and I can sit down and write a story that follows that film beat for beat as far as what's accomplished in the scene, what does that mean? It's going to be as good, half as good, any good?

    Sequencing is a part of structure, but it's not the only ingredient to it. There's a lot more, so it's not fair to use sequence and structure interchangeably.

    Leave a comment:


  • Crayon
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    Originally posted by Hans Gruber View Post
    You are talking about the substance, the material. It has nothing to do with structure. A chair and a table can be made of wood, same substance, but the structure of a chair and table is different. If the pudding would have the structure of the Statue of Liberty but still would be made of milk, eggs... it would be edible.
    Hmmm ... you may well be correct, despite conflating atomic structure and manufactured structure. But I question just how edible 225 tons of free-standing custard would be. And I suspect the Statue of Liberty would fail to impress if it were in a bowl over apple pie. This clearly warrants further consideration.

    Leave a comment:

  • Hans Gruber
    User

  • Hans Gruber
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
    Do you try and bring a preconceived structure to a story?
    First is the idea, then the structure. But when I write I have a 4 act structure in my mind where I place my ideas. There are so many ways to write a screenplay.

    Originally posted by Crayon View Post
    I fervently agree. The Statue of Liberty and custard both have 'structure'. But if you swapped their structure you'd have a messy monument and an inedible pudding. Horses for courses; never hippos.
    You are talking about the substance, the material. It has nothing to do with structure. A chair and a table can be made of wood, same substance, but the structure of a chair and table is different. If the pudding would have the structure of the Statue of Liberty but still would be made of milk, eggs... it would be edible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Crayon
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
    See, exact instances like this is where I think the term structure is a garbage term. It means nothing. It's just thrown around and used and misused to describe plot. It's structure this and structure that. Structure is detailed and to the point. Structure is endless and has no boundaries. Do you try and bring a preconceived structure to a story? Do you let the story tell you what it's particular structure should be?
    I fervently agree. The Statue of Liberty and custard both have 'structure'. But if you swapped their structure you'd have a messy monument and an inedible pudding. Horses for courses; never hippos.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cyfress
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    See, exact instances like this is where I think the term structure is a garbage term. It means nothing. It's just thrown around and used and misused to describe plot. It's structure this and structure that. Structure is detailed and to the point. Structure is endless and has no boundaries. Do you try and bring a preconceived structure to a story? Do you let the story tell you what it's particular structure should be?

    Structure is the sequence of events that tell your story. The key words in that definition is sequence, event, story.

    You ever see a movie where the very first scene is the climax of the movie? Think about that. Their structure said: ACT 1, Scene 1 - Tease the story climax. Then people copycatted it because it did work, it began to work so well that they labeled it, a Tease. Some movies open up like this. That's what structure is, it labels things that worked in the past and have worked for a very long time. The 2nd act climax isn't important because it falls on page 60, its important because the story just took a major turn. The sequence part of structure isn't where the quality comes from, but if you don't have these elements a reader will get lost in your story. Readers have proved to need these scenes to follow the story and be engaged by it. Have writers toyed with it? Of course. Of course. For the most part I know I need that scene that draws my hero into the central conflict, then a few scenes later I have to make sure the dramatic question has been raised and the reader is aware of the question. I know I really need a scene around the middle that turns the story in a direction the reader did not see coming, about 75% through the story I know I need a scene that either displays the hero as the apparent winner or the apparent loser, and then I need a scene at the end where the dramatic question is finally answered and in such a way that the reader is satisfied yet baffled how you got there.

    I need those scenes for the story to make sense to the reader. Having them guarantees you nothing, not having them guarantees you nothing as well as in the script will do 'nothing'.
    Structure to me comes from wrestling with that provoking question that the script is all about and knowing my characters and their connection to that question, have each side land their punches

    Leave a comment:

  • Hans Gruber
    User

  • Hans Gruber
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    Cyfress,

    thanx for your feedback.

    Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
    Except one thing, you are acting like the investigation is over. You found the answer to structure a script in the Hollywood style.
    It's not the only way to structure a screenplay. I just gave some examples. There are more ways to structure screenplays. There are thousands of movies and they are not structured the same. I would never say this.

    ComicBent,

    Thanx for the hint.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cyfress
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    I thought in the movie he did prove some impossible theory but then years later disprove it. I thought it was the theory of everything, maybe its not. I could be remembering it wrong. I only saw it once when it first came out on demand.

    Leave a comment:

  • FoxHound
    Member

  • FoxHound
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
    All I can tell you is this, one of the smartest men in the world, Stephen Hawking spent decades of his life proving the theory of everything, once he did it became widely accepted and honored as an incredible achievement, Hawking then spent the next set of years disproving the theory.
    Wait what? There is no current (and never was) a theory which properly unites quantum physics and gravity (theory of everything). And certainly never one that's been proven. It's all highly theoretical -- like String Theory.

    You might be thinking of his thesis that the Universe started as a black hole.

    Leave a comment:

  • ComicBent
    Member

  • ComicBent
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    I think that Hans is just presenting an academic analysis of screenplay structure - and doing it in thorough German style!

    But maybe if a theory does not fit onto one sheet of paper (with a normal font), it is too complicated. Okay, two sheets ... three sheets, maximum!

    Hans, a quick English lesson here, because this same problem will come up again.

    I take it like Einstein who never became a Nobelprize for his theory of relativity.
    You were thinking of the German bekam (from bekommen, which means "to get or to acquire"). But the English verb to become does not have that meaning. Rather, the English to become means the same thing as the German werden.

    It is a common mistake.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cyfress
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    You say, Why not? It will be an example of how usable the structure-sheet can be?'

    Who judges its merit? You do? You create a paradigm and then also you get to be the judge of how useful it is too? Boy, if it only worked like that in real life everyone would be on top of the world.

    I can tell that you have lots to learn about scriptwriting, not just from your paradigm cause I didn't even look at it, but just in your approach to screenwriting. It seems novice like.

    Things like I don't rewrite, then you told me that the 2nd act climax of Die Hard is when Hans Gruber opens the safe. I know that's not right. I don't know the ins and outs of that plot per se, but I know that's not it. It's probably when he discovers the roof is rigged with explosives. The 2ns act Climax would never be a Hans event, it would be a John McClain event.

    Other things too. Then you also kind of make 'claims' about this paradigm and what it can do, then in other replies you state that this can not teach you how to write. So, you endorse it then distance yourself from it.

    There's nothing wrong with seeking knowledge and investigating. Its really what you should be doing when you are away from the writing. I wanna make it clear that I don't think you are doing anything wrong and in fact more young writers should be doing what you are doing. Except one thing, you are acting like the investigation is over. You found the answer to structure a script in the Hollywood style. All I can tell you is this, one of the smartest men in the world, Stephen Hawking spent decades of his life proving the theory of everything, once he did it became widely accepted and honored as an incredible achievement, Hawking then spent the next set of years disproving the theory.

    Like I tried to explain to you in a previous post, you should never be thinking, 'I know' and always be thinking 'I need to learn'.

    Leave a comment:

  • Hans Gruber
    User

  • Hans Gruber
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
    But will it be any good? That's what I mean.
    Why not? It will be an example of how usable the sctructure-sheet can be. What can you lose? Just 9 words. For me it will be some days of work. I'm fine with that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cyfress
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    But will it be any good? That's what I mean.

    Leave a comment:

  • Hans Gruber
    User

  • Hans Gruber
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
    script pages, like words, are cheap. It's what's on them that counts.

    What I meant: Banana, glue, shovel. From this 3 words I would write a story (outline) using the structure-sheet, and this 3 words will be a important part of this story, so it will count whats on the pages.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cyfress
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    script pages, like words, are cheap. It's what's on them that counts.

    Leave a comment:

  • Hans Gruber
    User

  • Hans Gruber
    replied
    Re: Much easier version of Screenplay-Structure-Sheet

    My english isn't good enough to write a screenplay in english. The last page of the structure sheet contains an story example I wrote in english, but it's not written as a screenplay.

    It's not my method. It's just a possibility how Holywood structure their stories. It's used over and over again in Hollywood.

    EDIT: A suggestion: Someone gives me 9 words. From this 9 words I will make 3 stories. Every story will contain 3 words from the 9 words you gave me. To write the stories I will use the screenplay-structure-sheet to show how useful it is. I will write the stories as outlines in something like a live ticker simultaneously here - 3 stories for 3 screenpalys 90 - 110 minutes long.
    Hans Gruber
    User
    Last edited by Hans Gruber; 03-13-2016, 05:37 AM.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X