War and Screenplays

[reiverx]

I took the plunge and put a script up for evaluation on the Blacklist. It didn't do too well but you know, my first script and all that, so it's all good.

One thing really got under my skin though, and that was the first line of the weaknesses section.

"The main problem with this WWI address is that it comes across and a benign accounting of social/military events that span the years of conflict (1914-1918) - and even then - the story/plot action seems to stop long before America's intervention helped turn the tide against German forces."

So my question is this: If a war story doesn't involve the American forces, is it pretty much dead in the water?

[reiverx]

Re: War and Screenplays

There's no American intervention in the script. It's set during 1914-1915.

[StoryWriter]

Re: War and Screenplays

So my question is this: If a war story doesn't involve the American forces, is it pretty much dead in the water?

I had kind of the same question a few years back. I liked the movie "Timeline". (Maybe I was the only one?)

A lot of critics attacked it for the same reason they always attack time travel movies -- that they don't hold up to a lot of scrutiny. Which they don't, but so what? It's kind of like complaining about Romantic Comedies because they have the same formula. Yeah, well, if they didn't they wouldn't be a romantic comedy.

But the thing that bothered me the most about many of the critics (some pretty well known), is that they criticized this movie because the French not the English won the battle depicted in the movie.

I mean WTF?!

[reiverx]

Re: War and Screenplays

I had kind of the same question a few years back. I liked the movie "Timeline". (Maybe I was the only one?)

A lot of critics attacked it for the same reason they always attack time travel movies -- that they don't hold up to a lot of scrutiny. Which they don't, but so what? It's kind of like complaining about Romantic Comedies because they have the same formula. Yeah, well, if they didn't they wouldn't be a romantic comedy.

But the thing that bothered me the most about many of the critics (some pretty well known), is that they criticized this movie because the French not the English won the battle depicted in the movie.

I mean WTF?!

Yeah, my question isn't really about the contents of my screenplay. It's more about the American intervention reference coming from nowhere.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it because I'm not American.

By the way, I'm glad the French won. You know, with me being a Scot. Auld Alliance and all that.

My dad is English though.

And I live in the States.

I'm such a mongrel.

[JoeBanks]

Re: War and Screenplays

Gallipoli, Breaker Morant, Chris Nolan's next movie is all about the Dunkirk evacuation.

if it's a compelling story, just write it

[RogerOThornhill]

Re: War and Screenplays

Do you feel there is enough "conflict" in your story? Conflict doesn't have to mean blood action battles. Do characters have their own personal conflicts and personal struggles?

There are plenty of successful 'war' films without containing many military battles...

Two from David Lean that did pretty well:
Bridge on the River Kwai
Doctor Zhivago

A few others:

Hart's War
The African Queen
Great Escape
Mister Roberts
Casablanca
Sahara (Bogart)
Bedford Incident
Dirty Dozen


My point is ... do you have a war pic or a drama set in wartime?

(in addition to the storyline differences, there can be vast differences in production costs for pic with lots of battles versus more of a personal drama)

[ComicBent]

Re: War and Screenplays

Here are my thoughts, which are not profound ... but I have read reiverx's screenplay twice, in its course of development.

The comment about American forces was irrelevant. Just forget it.

The comment about the script as a «benign accounting» was something that the reviewer tossed in because he did not know what else to say. I think he meant that the script did not draw him into the story and shake his world. The use of «benign» was an inappropriate word choice. The action in the trenches was not benign.

I think the reader may have been saying that the script did not make him care about the characters and the plot. Now, I know that you did have a plot and some backstory that played into it. I know why the main character went off to war (and it is made clear in the script). You actually had a much more developed plot than I see in most scripts. The real issue is to what degree all of this will appeal to readers and viewers. Sometimes, no matter how well you do something, the subject matter is the problem.

Here is some advice that I give to people, and I don't think that anyone has taken it yet.

My Never Accepted Advice:

Do not keep obsessing over something that you have written. If you have written one script, you can write another. Everything that you write is a form of growth. It really is. You get better because of what you have done. So move on, and take advantage of the growth that has occurred.

[ewtaylor]

Re: War and Screenplays

Do not keep obsessing over something that you have written. If you have written one script, you can write another. Everything that you write is a form of growth. It really is. You get better because of what you have done. So move on, and take advantage of the growth that has occurred.

Excellent advice.

[ComicBent]

Re: War and Screenplays

Thanks, ew.

Of course, I do not mean that you should not do proper revisions and tweaks, especially after you get away from the script for a while and are able to come back to it with a fresh mind.

I have a pal who has lots of talent and a very rich imagination. But the problem is that he keeps trying to fix a couple of screenplays based on what consultants say (and they have offered good advice). Sometimes you simply cannot overcome the deficiencies or disadvantages of the subject material. The good thing is that you learn from doing, even if the product of your efforts is not great. You are better the next time.

[reiverx]

Re: War and Screenplays

Yup, it's time to take Comicbent's advice and move on to new pastures. I've had a nifty idea brewing in my head for a few months now but I can't pull it out of the concept stage.

Drives me nuts.

[omjs]

Re: War and Screenplays

Here are my thoughts, which are not profound ... but I have read reiverx's screenplay twice, in its course of development.

The comment about American forces was irrelevant. Just forget it.

The comment about the script as a «benign accounting» was something that the reviewer tossed in because he did not know what else to say. I think he meant that the script did not draw him into the story and shake his world. The use of «benign» was an inappropriate word choice. The action in the trenches was not benign.

I think the reader may have been saying that the script did not make him care about the characters and the plot. Now, I know that you did have a plot and some backstory that played into it. I know why the main character went off to war (and it is made clear in the script). You actually had a much more developed plot than I see in most scripts. The real issue is to what degree all of this will appeal to readers and viewers. Sometimes, no matter how well you do something, the subject matter is the problem.

Here is some advice that I give to people, and I don't think that anyone has taken it yet.

My Never Accepted Advice:

Do not keep obsessing over something that you have written. If you have written one script, you can write another. Everything that you write is a form of growth. It really is. You get better because of what you have done. So move on, and take advantage of the growth that has occurred.

For what it's worth, I interpreted the "benign accounting" phrase similarly, even without reading your script. It sounds like the reader felt you were just showing a series of events, like listing facts, rather than anchoring the story in an emotional way.

Also, ComicBent, the somewhat sneaky way I tend to give this advice is "Set this script aside and write another one; you can always come back to it later." If you really do decide to keep rewriting, the distance will only help you. Though you may find that once you've gotten away from it and started to really improve, your energy is better spent elsewhere.

[ComicBent]

Re: War and Screenplays

Set this script aside and write another one; you can always come back to it later.

OMG!... I have used the same words. I have literally said, "You can come back to it later."

Great minds think alike!

[FoxHound]

Re: War and Screenplays

For what it's worth, I interpreted the "benign accounting" phrase similarly, even without reading your script. It sounds like the reader felt you were just showing a series of events, like listing facts, rather than anchoring the story in an emotional way.

I had the exact same reaction. Not dramatic or compelling enough. What's your hook? Maybe that's the problem.

Also, when it comes to action/war movies, it's sometimes the little things that can make or break you. For eg. In EDGE OF TOMMOROW, the whole film easily could've turned into a CGI video game borefest like Battleship (it looked like it from the commercial). But Cruise's feelings for Blunt and being forced to watch her die hundreds of times repeatedly was such a brilliant / emotional / haunting addition. It gave the film enormous HEART. Which is what distinguishes it from 95% of other cgi action/war crap.

[Ronaldinho]

Re: War and Screenplays

Obviously, I haven't read the script. Take with requisite caveats.

I would not worry about the American intervention part.

What I read that note as meaning - which could be wrong - is that the story feels like a dry series of events rather than a story with a point of view and dramatic urgency.

This is a pretty common problem I see in amateur scripts. Rather than pushing forward from one scene to the next, it's simply "this happens, then this happens, then this happens." Rather than giving us the events of a story from a character's point of view, connect to their struggle, stuff just sort of ... happens.

In a film, what happens is actually less important than how we're supposed to feel about it. It's your job as a writer not just to put us in the middle of the action, but to make us FEEL something about what's happening.

My guess is that you're falling short in that area. But maybe you're not. Maybe the reader just didn't like it and doesn't really know why, so just threw some comments at the wall. Heck, even very conscientious readers are often not aware of why something isn't working for them. (The vast majority of people who can accurately and consistently put their finger on why a script isn't working aren't working for $30 a read).

Plenty of successful films have been made that weren't about Americans. Sometimes an idea about non-Americans is re-purposed with an American set of characters (see U-571). But if the reader had loved the screenplay, he wouldn't have cared if the characters were Americans, English, Bangladeshi, or Martian.

[Clint Hill]

Re: War and Screenplays

My Never Accepted Advice:

Do not keep obsessing over something that you have written. If you have written one script, you can write another. Everything that you write is a form of growth. It really is. You get better because of what you have done. So move on, and take advantage of the growth that has occurred.

Accepted. Good words by which to write.