Outlining

[EdFury]

Does everybody hate outlining as much as I do? I doubt it.

[sallain]

Re: Outlining

Does everybody hate outlining as much as I do? I doubt it.

I'm starting to wonder if it's counter productive for me. I like to have a loose outline, (really just a document with the basic story, usually what I'd use to pitch) but I find that sometimes when I sit down to do a more detailed outline I get a case of really bad writer's block. I'll try to work out all the details for the next act and I can't, and so I stop writing. But sometimes if I just keep writing things will come to me that I won't think of when outlining.

Is someone requesting an outline, or is this a typical part of your process?

[finalact4]

Re: Outlining

I used to use a very loose outline, just the major plot points, but have since, over time, found that the more detailed the outline the better the quality of the first draft. Thus, fewer rewrite drafts.

But, yeah, it's not always a pleasant experience while you're doing it.

[DangoForth]

Re: Outlining

Hate it. But I do it.

[HatTrick]

Re: Outlining

I try to at least write out the 8 plot points. Then if there are certain things that I know I want to include I'll write a sentence or two about them. Other than that, I don't outline too much.

[EdFury]

Re: Outlining

I'm starting to wonder if it's counter productive for me. I like to have a loose outline, (really just a document with the basic story, usually what I'd use to pitch) but I find that sometimes when I sit down to do a more detailed outline I get a case of really bad writer's block. I'll try to work out all the details for the next act and I can't, and so I stop writing. But sometimes if I just keep writing things will come to me that I won't think of when outlining.

Is someone requesting an outline, or is this a typical part of your process?

I don't do them if I can help it. This is an assignment job where they're insisting on one. Usually I can talk my way out of it, but not this time.

With the producers and production companies I've worked with before they know I'm better without one just because I have my process down pretty well. I'm doing this outline because they're paying me well and it's what they want. Doesn't mean it isn't a royal pain in the ass.

[StoryWriter]

Re: Outlining

Does everybody hate outlining as much as I do? I doubt it.

My first draft is normally my "outline".

i know where I'm going -- I know where I'm starting from. I'm pretty sure I know the route I'm going to take to get there.

I usually find a better route on the way.

I'm not a pro, and writing is still fun for me.

So take anything I say with a huge grain of salt.

[TheConnorNoden]

Re: Outlining

What finalact4 said. I used to be a vomit drafter but the years of cleaning up said sick has been frustrating. I try and have at least a good idea of most of the scenes now. It's a chore but very helpful in the long run.

[DangoForth]

Re: Outlining

I used to do 3-6 handwritten pages for the outline. I am considering shifting over to using the "index cards on the wall" approach. Anybody else use and like this method?

[muckraker]

Re: Outlining

I tried outlining a time or two -- didn't care for it. Actually, check that. I f'ing HATED it.

[Mitchell McLean]

Re: Outlining

Ken Levine's blog from yesterday (a repost) hits on the necessity of being able to write an outline if you ever hope to write for television. I started outlining everything because of an earlier repost, because I hope it'll make me more employable. Or, at least, less unemployable.

http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2016/0...t-want-to.html

[FoxHound]

Re: Outlining

I have a great memory so a lot of my outlining happens in my head over the course of months (even years) before even writing scripts. I never tackle a project unless I'm positive it will work out.

This is because of my first script in 2002. I had this great hook about scientists finding an ancient alien artifact on Mars, and a science team being dispatched to investigate it. And after I wrote the first act... squat... for months. To this day I have no clue what the heck should happen in the second and third acts.

[ihavebiglips]

Re: Outlining

I am a pretty massive proponent of learning to tolerate outlining for a few reasons (at least initially), namely:

1. It helps you think and steep yourself in this story without the pressure of it having to be "good." The more obsessive you get with ruminating on a story, the better and more layered it will be (assuming your rumination isn't running you in circles, and the story is beginning to reveal itself). Also, a completed outline can help you combat writer's block—when the entire thing is mapped out, you have less excuses when sitting down to write: the path is clear, theoretically, and these can lead to far fewer drafts than just setting out and writing without a map.

2. You'll have to do it professionally. Might as well learn to embrace it now, as much as it can suck. Outlining in general kind of sucks—being prescriptively noted to death on an outline *REALLY* sucks. But it's par for the course.

3. You'll know you have a full story on your hands. Sometimes a concept is great but it's not suited to a feature (or novel) length treatment. It's a short film or story. Instead of spiraling or shoehorning in a bunch of threads and extra padding to reach feature or novel length as you write, you'll maybe acknowledge it's not fit to the form earlier and set it aside in favor of something else.


That said, outlining also sucks balls for converse reasons:

1. I find that my bro and I, after all of that outlining, *constantly* veer off of outlining in the scripting as we find more organic and true-to-character ways to make the plot unfold. That's the rub. Until you've lived with these characters and found them on the page, you and your outlining are kinda focusing on plot no matter how hard you try to find these beats through a conceptualized character. And, personally for me, plot sucks. Character is where it's at. Character is everything. We want to love, to hate, to be inspired to laugh or cry—this all comes from character, for the most part. No matter what you make happen to a character, it won't matter unless we FEEL something for or about them, be it reverence, love, hate, annoyance, pity, etc.

As hard as we as writers try to make outlines present a logical story, I find (in my own reading giving people notes, in watching films, etc) that character motivation sometimes takes a back seat, and that is a cardinal sin for me. Stick to an outline over abandoning it to be true to character is a problem, as outlines can kind of become their own dogma if you let them. Outline, sure, but don't be a slave to it.

Outlines kind of create their own brand of writer's block because the writing of the script can feel like homework or painting by numbers at that point. It is much less inspiring and artistic and freeing to write to an outline

2. Kind of goes into the above—when working on an assignment and having to supply meddling overlords with an outline, you'll often find that they MAKE it dogmatic document. Once they sign off on it, veering becomes an issue. Sometimes you can convince them of reasons you should veer, but you only get so many of those per project and we all know what a house of cards an outline can be. You convince them of one change and now all of a sudden you have to convince them of six more to stay true to the character. It sucks the life out of you. But again necessary evil if you want to work in this kind of collaborative medium (also why we are writing novels and making a micro-budget feature as well).

3. You should kind of know that inherently and all you really need is a very broad idea in terms of "beginning, middle, and end" to write something. Most stories are too long anyway, features and novels included. And many short stories and novellas are optioned and become amazing films. So **** it. Know you have an ending and write towards it.

[docgonzo]

Re: Outlining

I used to hate even the idea of outlining and used to write scripts in a more free-form fashion. Boy, was that a ton of wasted effort. My scripts were meandering, flabby, and complete ****. So I started outlining (especially when I switched to writing TV.) Now it's an integral part to my process. I work out a ton of story issues, character issues, etc., before I open FD. Learn to love it!

[Crayon]

Re: Outlining

Outlining is the best part. It's when a premise blossoms into a story. And then my outline document is the basis of my first draft.