What is the difference?

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  • #31
    Re: What is the difference?

    Originally posted by Centos View Post
    Where do you find this "Hollywood standard," and who defines it?
    Centos, you're not a newbie. You're so caught up about dispelling "rules" that you want to ignore the obvious. My previous post was very clear about your question to me.

    "Hollywood"

    This means the industry. The professionals who work and thrive in this business, making films, TV shows, etc.: studio executives, producers, agents, managers, writers, etc.

    "standard"

    It means: "a level of quality or attainment." Synonyms: normal, typical, expected, etc.

    "who defines it"

    The professionals in the industry. I gave an example of one professional, Christopher Lockhart. He has worked in the industry for 20 years, looking for material over those years for clients, such as, Denzel Washington, Mel Gibson, Richard Gere, Steve Martin, Robert Downey Jr., Sharon Stone, etc.

    Centos, I thought he would be a credible source to represent the industry about what major elements are expected to be included in an effective logline, but I guess in your eyes he's not, or you wouldn't have addressed the highlighted question to me.

    A writer has free will. There are no "rules," where a writer must construct a logline a certain way. There is an expectation, a "Hollywood standard," on what makes an effective logline where it would entice an industry person to read/request the writer's script.

    If a writer wants to ignore the minimum expectation of including the protagonist, goal and antagonist, or antagonist force (animal [shark], weather [tornado], setting [Cast Away], protagonist himself, etc.), the writer is certainly free to do so.

    Centos, I hope by me admitting that there are no "rules" when it comes to constructing a logline this will satisfy you.

    If a writer wants to send off a logline with only the high concept hook, or a logline with a setting and an antagonist force only, etc. the writer is free to do so, but according to industry people this isn't an effective way to represent the story, missing some key elements that make a logline strong.
    Last edited by JoeNYC; 05-06-2019, 03:40 PM.

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    • #32
      Re: What is the difference?

      Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
      "Hollywood"

      This means the industry. The professionals who work and thrive in this business, making films, TV shows, etc.: studio executives, producers, agents, managers, writers, etc.

      "standard"

      It means: "a level of quality or attainment." Synonyms: normal, typical, expected, etc.
      I know what "standard" means. My point (was I unclear?) is that there is none. There is no "Hollywood standard" for loglines. These "standards" are made up as "they" go, usually by people who run some screenplay contest, or write a book, or teach classes. The professionals are the ones who work in the business and actually sell screenplays. They're the ones who are telling you that there aren't "Hollywood standards" for things like loglines.

      Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
      "who defines it"

      The professionals in the industry. I gave an example of one professional, Christopher Lockhart. He has worked in the industry for 20 years, looking for material over those years for clients, such as, Denzel Washington, Mel Gibson, Richard Gere, Steve Martin, Robert Downey Jr., Sharon Stone, etc.
      So, in your mind, ONE professional decides what a "Hollywood standard" means in loglines? What about other professionals (some of whom post or have posted here) who say "don't worry about this crap?" Are they only professionals if they agree with Christopher Lockhart?

      Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
      Centos, I thought he would be a credible source to represent the industry about what major elements are expected to be included in an effective logline, but I guess in your eyes he's not, or you wouldn't have addressed the highlighted question to me.
      The problem, Joe, is that he's one voice. He doesn't represent everyone in Hollywood — many of whom say don't sweat this kind of stuff. To be a "standard" it has to be defined by more than one professional. In this case, it definitely isn't a "standard."

      Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
      A writer has free will. There are no "rules," where a writer must construct a logline a certain way. There is an expectation, a "Hollywood standard," on what makes an effective logline where it would entice an industry person to read/request the writer's script.
      Except there ISN'T a "Hollywood standard" for loglines. Which, again, is my point.

      Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
      If a writer wants to ignore the minimum expectation of including the protagonist, goal and antagonist, or antagonist force (animal [shark], weather [tornado], setting [Cast Away], protagonist himself, etc.), the writer is certainly free to do so.
      Almost all successful writers ignore many (if not most) of the "rules" gurus try to impose on newbies. They do what works.

      Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
      Centos, I hope by me admitting that there are no "rules" when it comes to constructing a logline this will satisfy you.
      I read what the people, in the business and sell screenplays, say about these things. I remember at one time I used to argue against professionals on a newsgroup who insisted on "not being slaves to rules." They finally turned me when I started discovering these rules were pretty much bulls---, and that almost none of the sold screenplays I read followed them.

      Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
      If a writer wants to send off a logline with only the high concept hook, or a logline with a setting and an antagonist force only, etc. the writer is free to do so, but according to industry people this isn't an effective way to represent the story, missing some key elements that make a logline strong.
      You mean "according to the industry people who happen to agree with you," who appear to be in the minority (unless you're including teachers, guru book writers and screenplay contest organizers, who, if they work — or worked — in the business at all, it was on the peripheral. Real professionals are too busy writing and selling to worry about this crap.
      STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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      • #33
        Re: What is the difference?

        I'll try this another way... and I know it will go horribly wrong!!!

        What does Hollywood want more?

        A great spec by a writer who can't tell you the exact difference between logline and premise and concept and theme the way some people can break it down... or the expert who can break down all the terms perfectly for their spec which is just run of the mill terrible?

        I'm sure some of you think you need BOTH to do it. But you don't.

        It's instinct man. The great specs and writers are doing the thing... they aren't usually thinking about this stuff... I'm sure some are... but I know writers... I listen to writers... I talk to writers... and from what I hear they aren't thinking of terms, they are thinking of story beats and ideas and cool images and trailer moments and funny dialogue... but it's all sort of coming out at once and it's not being put into this specific boxes....

        Bill Belichick knows more about football than maybe anyone, but there are some players who can't even remember the plays in the playbook that score the touchdowns. They can't explain why. They can't explain how. They just do it. Now as a Pats fan there are the Tom Brady's who can do both... but I believe that's the rare bread indeed...

        Can we all agree that the goal is to write good material that people want to buy?

        Yes, I think we need to know what a logline is and how to write one, but I do not believe there is a formula you must follow. In fact I argued that you should have a logline that can sum up your story so you can stay on track as you write and then you should write the best logline to get reads.

        And that's the difference between knowing terms and knowing when/how to actually use them. When to ignore them. When to hold em. When to fold em.

        You ever use duct tape or glue or a nail for something they tell you not to use it for?

        If you live in NYC, have you ever crossed the street when it said don't walk because you learned living in NYC exactly how to cross the street when it says not too?

        Do you always go the speed limit, as the rules say, or do you sometimes dare I saw often go faster to get to work?

        But the rules say you can't do any of that. Why do you do it in real life, but you're afraid to break rules in your creative life where they penalties are much much less severe?

        If you drive too fast you can kill someone or yourself -- but we all do it. Yet writers are afraid to write "stage direction" in a screenplay -- a document that literally is 100% telling directors and actors what to say and do.

        Think about how crazy that is when you step back? There is no creative jail. Unless you put yourself in there. Or you're Roseanne Barr.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: What is the difference?

          Originally posted by Centos View Post
          I know what "standard" means. My point (was I unclear?) is that there is none. There is no "Hollywood standard" for loglines. ... So, in your mind, ONE professional decides what a "Hollywood standard" means in loglines?
          One. ONE. ONE!!! Golly, my head his gonna explode.

          Centos, you've been around since 2009. In all that time, you've never heard an industry person, besides Chris Lockhart, state the key/major elements that would make up an effective logline?

          Centos, we both agree that there are no "rules- on how to construct a logline, but you seem to be disagreeing with the advice on what major elements MUST be included in order to have a strong, effective logline.

          You take offense because in your mind you believe "MUST- is just a substitution for "rules.-

          In my mind, I take the word "MUST- as a guideline where these suggested key elements has proven in the past to be an effective way to construct a strong logline that would entice someone to read my screenplay.

          Tell me, Centos, manfredlopez provided a logline for JAWS: "A killer shark terrorizes a small resort town.-

          Do you believe this is the most effective way, leaving out the protagonist and his goal, to entice someone to read a screenplay?

          It's just common sense that if someone asks "What's your story about,- they're looking for you to tell them the one or two sentence logline that expresses the "A- throughline of the story, which would include the protagonist, goal and antagonist, or an antagonist force.

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          • #35
            Re: What is the difference?

            Originally posted by Bono View Post
            I'll try this another way... What does Hollywood want more?

            A great spec by a writer who can't tell you the exact difference between logline and premise and concept and theme the way some people can break it down... or the expert who can break down all the terms perfectly for their spec which is just run of the mill terrible?
            Bono, it seems you and Centos managed to make a liar out of me because I said previously that I wasn’t gonna make any more posts on this topic, but you two sucked me back in.

            Bono, I and I suspect others understood your point, but the problem was your point of “What does Hollywood want more” was a huge tangent from the topic of the thread, where barh, the OP, asked and wanted to know -- specifically -- “What is the difference between premise, theme, concept and logline.”

            In a past thread on this topic, Done Deal member, Juno Styles, asked: “I hear and see concept and premise used interchangeably a lot. Is there a defining difference or are they basically the same thing?”

            Some members were giving the Egri and the dictionary definition of premise, advising Juno that it was the theme of the story, where members who were working professionals in the industry, such as, Jeff Lowell and Neal M. Stevens, had to jump in and give the “Hollywood” definition.

            Neal M. Stevens said the following:

            “’the premise’ of the story is simply what the story is about. That is, what you tell someone in a sentence or two if they asked you what Die Hard was about, or what Inception was about, or what Jaws was about.

            ‘Concept’ as I perceive it, is a broader stroke version of this. That is, the concept of Inception is People going into other people’s Dreams. There are bunch of movies about this. Dreamscape, The Cell, Paprika. They’re all about people going into other people’s dreams.

            Jaws is a small community menaced by a giant something...

            The story premise of these various movies are more specific and, at least from my perspective, I’d consider a log line and a movie’s premise to be just about the same thing. They’re both ideally telling you what the movie’s about.”

            Jeff Lowell said, “’Premise’ has a meaning outside of screenwriting that isn’t the same as it’s used in Hollywood. John August put it well:

            [In Hollywood, premise commonly means “What the movie is about.” It’s a very short pitch, basically interchangeable with logline. The premise of Die Hard is that a cop has to stop a band of robbers by himself in an office tower. The premise of Armageddon is that an asteroid is headed towards Earth, and a team of misfits has to stop it.]

            Jeff Lowell closes with: “If someone asks you for the premise of your script and you give them the theme, they’re just going to have to ask again”

            Hey, Centos!

            Did you catch how John August’s short logline pitch included the same elements that Christopher Lockhart said must be included: protagonist, goal, and antagonist, or antagonist force?

            Coincidence, Centos, or is it a professional writer knowing what makes for an effective logline?

            In other words: "The Hollywood standard" of what makes for an effective logline.
            Last edited by JoeNYC; 05-07-2019, 05:46 AM.

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            • #36
              Re: What is the difference?

              Joe -- I think you're great and a very smart man. Or a genius spiderman aged kid. I don't know. Or secretly a female whose name is not Joe at all!!!! I didn't even think of that until now. Some of you might have realized, I'm not really Bono. I'm actually The Edge.

              I don't disagree with your last post. Or a lot of what you say.

              And yes I love tangents. That's Bono 101. That's me too. Staying on topic is boring to me and not the way my mind works. It's more like a comedian on a talk show... this... that... this... that...

              So if you're looking for someone to stay 100% on topic, you've found the wrong man. But to me the threads evolve over time and every thread in a message board if it goes on long enough takes on a life of it's on. I'm not writing a how to book and trying to make sure it's clear and in the right spot.

              John August and Jeff Lowell quotes seems to back up what I was saying a long time ago.

              Theme is different than logline, premise and concept, but those 3 terms are used by people in generally the same way. Isn't that what those quotes boil down too?

              I've been saying theme is subtext, the other 3 are text. And these are slight variations like iPhones but they all are the same thing at it's heart, an iPhone.

              Logline -- iPhone 8
              Premise - iPhone Xr
              Concept - iPhone Xs

              (can you tell i just bought a new phone?)

              Theme -- air pods
              Last edited by Bono; 05-07-2019, 06:13 AM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: What is the difference?

                Originally posted by Bono View Post
                Joe -- I think you're great and a very smart man.
                Finally, we agree on something!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: What is the difference?

                  Logline needs it's own thread, but probably already 1000 of those.

                  I agree Joe, with what JA said and others said should be in a logline.

                  I haven't been trying to argue not to include those things, I was saying that the term logline and concept might mean the same thing to some people.

                  And that if I said Joe tell me the premise of your new script -- I think you'd give me your logline as it's the shortest way into the story. Then if I ask for more -- you'd tell me more. So even if the person doesn't say what's the logline, but says "Whats the concept, Joe? " -- if this is the first time you're talking, i assume like i would you'd tell them or send them the shortest version possible, what we would call a logline to express the story. Less is more. The easier it is to say what the movie is at it's core, the better you'll be at writing it and pitching it.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: What is the difference?

                    what's unfortunate, is that there are writers watching this exchange that will think they need not understand how to construct a good logline or that it even matters that you try.

                    that they can surely discard the tools that are provided as unnecessary. the logline is the first selling tool a writer has for their script. to suggest that there isn't an expectation, a standard, is harmful to the unrepped writer who has no contacts.

                    what does anyone care if a writer uses the wisdom of another industry professional, a very highly respected professional, to construct a well designed logline?

                    why do writers tell other writers who have openly asked the question that it's not important to learn terminology? when that writer has determined on their own that it is relevant?

                    if it helps the writer feel more confident to learn more about the industry why does anyone want to hold a writer back?

                    the OP asked, what do these words mean? they didn't say, please give me your opinion on whether they matter or not. they already determined that it matters to them.

                    here's the bottom line:

                    if you cannot write an effective logline and you're not repped, or you have no contacts in the industry how many people do you think will request your script?

                    if someone asks you, "what is your premise?" do YOU want to feel confident that you can answer that question?

                    if someone asks you, "what is your concept?" regardless of whether its meaning can crossover, do YOU want to feel confident that you can answer that question?

                    if someone asks you, "what is your theme?" do YOU want to feel confident in your response?

                    if you want to do everything within your control to improve your chances of getting your script noticed then do everything YOU believe you should to make that happen.

                    because there are always other writers that will say, "don't do this," or "don't do that," and if you listen to that you could be holding yourself back from becoming an amazing writer.

                    if i had listened to every writer who said, "don't do this," or "don't do that," i wouldn't have my unique voice. my scripts wouldn't stand apart. i just knew what was right for me. and that was to ignore a lot of "don't dos."

                    loglines matter.
                    "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: What is the difference?

                      Originally posted by Bono View Post
                      I haven't been trying to argue not to include those things, I was saying that the term logline and concept might mean the same thing to some people. ... Less is more. The easier it is to say what the movie is at it's core, the better you'll be at writing it and pitching it.
                      There are gonna be some people inside and outside the industry who are gonna use the terms concept, premise and logline interchangeably to express the "A" throughline of a story. This is fine as long as the writer understands the broader definition of "concept," which I explained why this is so important to a writer in many previous posts.

                      Bono, you talk about "less is more" and "it's core" to make it easier to pitch and write what the movie is about.

                      In your opinion, you feel if a writer want's to express the logline as only the high concept hook, you believe this to be an effective way to say what his story is about. If a writer wants to focus only on the antagonist force and setting of his story, such as manfredlopez did with Jaws, "A killer shark terrorizes a small resort town" you feel this is effective, or quick, way to say what the story is about. Or, to focus on any other element.

                      As for a writer developing his story, sure it behoves him to start by developing a strong concept, hook: An attorney must tell the truth for 24 hours, and then once the concept is there to move on to the premise with the specific details and elements to flesh out the concept to a one or two sentence logline that'll get across his "A" throughline of his story to follow in writing his screenplay and to pitch to the industry.

                      In my opinion, to tell anyone that wants to know a writer's story, giving them just the high concept hook, or just focusing on the antagonist, or whatever is not an effective way to get across his story as he fully imagines it.

                      Bono, you disagree. This is fine. You're entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. Now, can we all move on.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: What is the difference?

                        Good news it’s only the 10 of us here and we all know what a logline is. Problem solved!
                        Writers go to other sources and discover for yourself if you don’t know. Message board threads aren’t the best first source of any info. They are for people who made up their minds to argue with each other for fun. Ha ha.

                        I wish us all luck

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: What is the difference?

                          Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                          Tell me, Centos, manfredlopez provided a logline for JAWS: “A killer shark terrorizes a small resort town.”

                          Do you believe this is the most effective way, leaving out the protagonist and his goal, to entice someone to read a screenplay?

                          It’s just common sense that if someone asks “What’s your story about,” they’re looking for you to tell them the one or two sentence logline that expresses the “A” throughline of the story, which would include the protagonist, goal and antagonist, or an antagonist force.
                          Manfred Lopez's logline grabs my attention, it has much more impact than ... When swimmers are killed in a resort town, the police chief, with a phobia for the ocean, must hunt and kill a monstrous white shark.

                          Talk about passive writing. Yeah, yeah, the chief has a phobia of water (personal problem, big whoop), but what the hell is he going to do about the damned shark who is terrorizing the town?!

                          When someone writes... A killer shark terrorizes a small town, it's pretty obvious that something is going to be done about it, otherwise you don't have a movie. Supposedly Snakes on a Plane was sold with the four word logline, "snakes on a plane." Some concepts don't need a lot of explanation. And not all loglines need to start with "when" or have the word "must" in them — or explicitly state the protagonist's goal or who is his antagonist.

                          Some examples...

                          Two imprisoned men bond over a number of years, finding solace and eventual redemption through acts of common decency. —The Shawshank Redemption

                          A wheelchair bound photographer spies on his neighbours from his apartment window and becomes convinced one of them has committed murder. —Rear Window

                          A computer hacker learns from mysterious rebels about the true nature of his reality and his role in the war against its controllers. —The Matrix

                          Forrest Gump, while not intelligent, has accidentally been present at many historic moments, but his true love, Jenny, eludes him. —Forrest Gump

                          Lion cub and future king Simba searches for his identity. His eagerness to please others and penchant for testing his boundaries sometimes gets him into trouble. —Lion King

                          I think a logline should simply answer the question, "what is the movie about?" And it should do it in a way that grabs your attention, not with some convoluted (and passive) mechanical formula.

                          I think Manfred Lopez hit the nail on the head when he wrote...

                          "Basically what I'm saying is, it took me a long time to learn that a Logline is not a mini synopsis of the story."

                          (Emphasis mine.)
                          STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: What is the difference?

                            Centos what do you think of my idea that there is a difference between loglines as a tool to make sure the writer has found the right story for their script vs the logline to sell the completed work in the best way?

                            Because I see that difference and I think that is what Joe and others may be bumping up against, even if they don't realize it.

                            It took me a long time to realize that if I was having trouble completing a logline with all the elements Joe laid out as the standard way, that means my script would also have issues. Or worse, if I already wrote it, does have issues.

                            Figuring out the logline is a key to unlocking the right story.

                            First, you get an idea. You get excited. You think you see the whole movie. Then you go to write that logline and you just can't quite get it. You can't write that logline... 95% of the time it's because something is fundamentally wrong with your idea. Or at least the way you're going to express your idea with your story beats. 5% -- maybe you really just are bad are writing logline and making your idea 1 sentence long.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: What is the difference?

                              Originally posted by Centos View Post
                              Manfred Lopez's logline grabs my attention, it has much more impact than ... When swimmers are killed in a resort town, the police chief, with a phobia for the ocean, must hunt and kill a monstrous white shark.
                              Centos, this is a matter of opinion.

                              I gave three different versions of the JAWS logline that included the protagonist, goal and antagonist force.

                              In your opinion, you feel manfredlopez's logline that doesn't include the protagonist, nor his goal is the most effective:

                              "A killer shark terrorizes a small resort town.-

                              In my opinion, I feel the most effective logline to get the JAWS "A- throughline story across is the one that also includes the protagonist's flaw/arc:

                              "When swimmers are killed in a resort town, a police chief, who possesses a fear of the ocean, must hunt and kill a monstrous white shark.-

                              You disagree, believing this logline is a convoluted, passive, mechanical formula. Fine. You're entitled to your opinion. Let's move on.

                              Centos, you say, "Supposedly SNAKES ON A PLANE was sold with the four world logline. ... Some concepts don't need a lot of explanation.-

                              This misunderstanding is what happens when you listen to the hype on the internet.

                              SNAKES ON A PLANE was originally titled VENOM. It was written by first time screenwriter David Dalessandro. In 1995, it was rejected 30 times by every Hollywood studio.

                              In 1997, Craig Berenson was attached as a producer. The script at the time was still called VENOM. It was about ONE venomous snake terrifying passengers on a plane.

                              Eventually, a few years later, New Line Cinema bought it and the script was given the working title of SNAKES ON A PLANE.

                              The title generated a lot of pre-release interest on the internet after blogger, screenwriter Josh Friedman, mentioned it after he was offered an assignment to do rewrite work on it. He turned the job down.

                              The title was changed to PACIFIC AIR FLIGHT 121 and producer Berenson's assistant, John Heffernan, was given the assignment to write the screenplay.

                              The title was changed back to SNAKES ON THE PLANE after Samuel Jackson protested, saying it was because of the title that he took the job.

                              The original writer, David Dalessandro filed a dispute with the WGA for credit, where he was given a story by credit.

                              Centos, no doubt SNAKES ON A PLANE is a powerful title and it expresses the high concept hook, but would this really be enough to make sure to entice the industry people when a writer sends out the query letters.

                              In my opinion, I feel a producer, agent, manager, etc. would want some more information than just these four words, such as, who is the protagonist, who was the antagonist that released the snakes and his motivation for doing so.

                              For example, a logline from IMDB:

                              "An F.B.I. agent takes on a plane full of deadly venomous snakes, deliberately released to kill a witness being flown from Honolulu to Los Angeles to testify against a mob boss.-

                              In my opinion, this fleshed out logline expressing the "A- throughline of the story is more compelling and effective than just those four words of the title.

                              Centos, in your opinion, you may disagree. Fine. Let's move on.

                              Centos, you say, a logline can work without "explicitly state the protagonist's goal or who is his antagonist.- You go on and give examples to prove your point. Because of time and energy concerns, I'm only gonna talk about your first example, THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION:

                              "Two imprisoned men bond over a number of years, finding solace and eventual redemption through acts of common decency.-

                              Centos, you found this example from the IMDB. One would think because of "redemption- in the title that this would be considered an effective logline, but its not.

                              This logline is a perfect example on spending time on developing the concept first before moving on with the premise, fleshing it out with the details and elements, making sure a writer's idea is workable and sellable before he commits a year of his life writing the screenplay.

                              Centos, the logline you've presented is expressing the protagonist's internal goal and the theme, which makes for a boring sounding screenplay. Inner journey isn't an effective way to communicate a writer's story. This is secondary.

                              I'm gonna use Chris Lockhart's suggestion of including the protagonist, goal and antagonist and see if I could come up with a stronger and more effective logline.

                              PROTAGONIST: a withdrawn banker.

                              (Centos, your logline had two protagonist. Red is a protagonist, but he's not the focal point of the story. The story exists because of the banker. Red is a narrator. It's through his eyes that we witness the events of the story.)

                              GOALS: adapt to prison life and regain his freedom.

                              ANTAGONISTS: the brutality of prison life and a corrupt warden.

                              After including the details to these key/major elements in order to have it stand apart from other concepts where a husband is wrongly convicted of murdering his wife, such as, THE FUGITIVE, the following would be the "A- throughline logline for THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION:

                              When a withdrawn banker is wrongly convicted of a double murder, he struggles with the brutality of prison life and a corrupt warden to stay alive while planning his escape.

                              Centos, in my opinion, this logline expressing the protagonist's external goal is more stronger and effective than the logline that you gave expressing the internal goal as an example of not following the "Hollywood standard- of what makes for an effective logline.

                              Centos, you may disagree. Fine. You're entitled to your opinion. Let's move on.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: What is the difference?

                                Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                                Centos, no doubt SNAKES ON A PLANE is a powerful title and it expresses the high concept hook, but would this really be enough to make sure to entice the industry people when a writer sends out the query letters. .
                                the entire post, well said, JoeNYC. i never knew that story about Snakes on a Plane.

                                i think what is key, beyond your statements, is above.

                                you know what an indy pro is going to do when someone send in a logline that says, Snakes on a Plane? "great concept, i know a writer that can execute that." and he's off and running.

                                aside form that, no one is going to say, "great, i'm going to sink $30 mil into that, send me the script." they're going to want to know what th story is. they're going to think the writer can''t execute a story, because surely if he could, he would've written a killer logline.

                                but what will get his attention is a logline that shows the writer can execute a well crafted story. not just come up with a high concept. that's what will get him to read the script, imo.

                                what's most important, is why would any writer take the chance? write a compelling logline. be rewarded with everyone requesting your script.
                                "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

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