How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

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  • #16
    Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

    Originally posted by nmstevens View Post
    you can just plain keep being dead wrong.
    this is not even english,

    I'm saying you seem like a you are acting crazy and I don't get in arguments, just have fun and respect others on here


    Originally posted by nmstevens View Post
    A screenwriter has a voice in every word of the screenplay.
    that's incredibly poetic, you've enlightened me


    Originally posted by nmstevens View Post
    I don't know what you mean by "contrive to the usual format."

    Really, it just has nothing to do with how real screenwriters right real screenplays.
    wow... just ****ing wow!

    Originally posted by nmstevens View Post
    Formatting has to do with margins and what gets capitalized and scene headings and things like that.
    It's a lot more complicated and there are nuances within the format
    Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

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    • #17
      Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

      Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
      Here's some more Poe -- no dialog. Do you notice any shifts of tone? Why do you suppose he does that?
      EAE wrote a novel, not a screenplay nor a play

      you copy and pasted a bunch of **** and didn't even think about what's actually being discussed, either you can't comprehend simple ideas or just have no basis to reference this knowledge

      you read the book and then you use critical thinking to evolve why it works or understand deeper themes, then we discuss. You just asked a question and copy and pasted the whole webpage? WTF?

      there are writer's like akiva goldsman, that just take a novel and interpret it into a screenplay, if what you are saying is true, why wouldn't a producer save millions of dollars and just shoot the novel?


      Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
      Of course Poe didn't just write morbid stuff. He wrote funny stuff too.
      okay. Was someone debating that he only wrote horror stories?

      I honestly think you found another webpage with a short story, didn't even read it and posted it on here
      Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

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      • #18
        Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

        Originally posted by Julysses View Post
        EAE wrote a novel, not a screenplay nor a play

        Actually, the first example was something people call "poems". Look it up in the dictionary. Also you might want to take another gander at the title of this thread. See the word "tone"? Now go off and see if you can puzzle it out, young pup. Fiction is fiction. Good writing is good writing.

        you copy and pasted a bunch of **** and didn't even think about what's actually being discussed, either you can't comprehend simple ideas or just have no basis to reference this knowledge

        Once again. See the word "tone"? (Included in the title of this thread.) When and if you ever understand what it means in writing -- try reading that "bunch of ****" again and see what you can tell me about the shifting tones, and the changing words used to convey those shifting tones.

        you read the book and then you use critical thinking to evolve why it works or understand deeper themes, then we discuss. You just asked a question and copy and pasted the whole webpage? WTF?

        You want me to tell about the "deeper themes" of that "bunch of ****"? Maybe I'll worry about doing that when you can tell the difference between a poem and a novel. (By the way -- have you ever heard of Edgar Allan Poe? Just wondering.)

        there are writer's like akiva goldsman, that just take a novel and interpret it into a screenplay, if what you are saying is true, why wouldn't a producer save millions of dollars and just shoot the novel?

        I'll bet Akiva Goldsman has heard of Edgar Allan Poe and has probably even read that "bunch of ****" "The Bells". I have no clue what you're claiming I said. I do understand the differences between a poem and novel and a screenplay. You got two out of three so maybe that ain't bad, but it ain't good either.

        You were the one who claimed "action lines should be easy to understand and contrive to the usual format" -- whatever the hell that's supposed to mean. Which gets us back to the point you obviously missed. Action lines clearly need to be entertaining -- whether they are in a screenplay that's an adaption from a novel, or if it's original. (Or even if it's adapted from a poem.)

        Boring action lines = boring (unread) screenplay. Pretty simple really.


        okay. Was someone debating that he only wrote horror stories?

        No. Did there have to be a "debate" to post something that showed Poe ALSO wrote comedy? Chill, dude, everything isn't YOU world.

        I honestly think you found another webpage with a short story, didn't even read it and posted it on here

        I've worn out my Complete Works of Edgar Allan Poe. Want a vocabulary -- read Poe. Want to learn how to use words to create tone -- read Poe. Want to know who invented the murder mystery -- read Poe.

        Hell, I even read "The Businessman" as a bedtime story to my kids.

        Anything else you want to tell me about me?
        End.
        Last edited by StoryWriter; 06-30-2019, 12:09 AM.
        "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

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        • #19
          Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

          Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
          End.
          you seem upset. I did not write most of what you quoted me as saying...


          Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
          Actually, the first example was something people call "poems". Look it up in the dictionary.
          umm, idk... is that any different? ...not sure how this changes the need to adapt the novel, poem or other literary device to a screenplay format. And in doing so you would use traditional action lines and description for said screenplay

          Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
          I'll bet Akiva Goldsman has heard of Edgar Allan Poe
          Goldsman has screenplays he has written, you can read the scripts. Why does that it matter if he's heard of EAP or anything like that... do you think he learned how to write screenplays from reading EAP?

          Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
          Action lines clearly need to be entertaining -- whether they are in a screenplay that's an adaption from a novel, or if it's original. (Or even if it's adapted from a poem.)

          Boring action lines = boring (unread) screenplay. Pretty simple really.
          why do you believe that to be true, what screenplay or screenwriter is giving you this idea?

          Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
          No. Did there have to be a "debate" to post something that showed Poe ALSO wrote comedy? Chill, dude, everything isn't YOU world.
          who were you talking to then?

          what does it have to do with anything we are discussing, if you read to your kids or anything at all? You're not making a point or even have a quick annotate, you just randomly say things without any point or reason to them


          I was going to discuss what elements screenwriters use to raise tension in a screenplay, then it became all about you and how you read EAP stories (and poems!!!! )

          there's overwhelming amount of amazing screenplays to reference and using EAP work as reference to discuss commonality of tension/fear between the two would be in an interesting conversation, so why can't we do that?
          Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

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          • #20
            Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

            So there is a screenplay that plays around with prose in a very comical was... BALLS OUT

            I'm sure ComicBent remembers the writers malcolm spellman and tim talbott

            ...together they formed The Robotard 8000

            the script is irreverent in a lot of ways and uses the all the elements of formatting for comical effect, it's a very entertaining read and had a huge buzz in HW, everyone loved the script, but no one ever thought it would make a good movie, it lived in the screenplay format and I would imagine that the writers knew that. It was written for other writers to read and poked fun at cliche action films.

            Balls Out has it's place on the blacklist and in screenplay history

            https://docplayer.net/168403-Balls-o...tard-8000.html
            Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

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            • #21
              Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

              I've read BALLS OUT back in the day and sure it's good.

              The example actually seem to be confirming the OP's hypothesis, which is that the way it's written helps it stand out and heightens the storytelling. The voice.

              I would argue that ten people can write the same screenplay, beat for beat, without altering the dialogue even, and convey the story in a different voice. Having a good voice can be the difference between a great story poorly or competently executed and an all-around great script.

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              • #22
                Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

                Originally posted by muckraker View Post

                I would argue that ten people can write the same screenplay, beat for beat, without altering the dialogue even, and convey the story in a different voice. Having a good voice can be the difference between a great story poorly or competently executed and an all-around great script.
                i agree completely.

                of course, changing some of the dialogue would be optimum to capitalize on the overall tone as well.
                "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

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                • #23
                  Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

                  Originally posted by muckraker View Post
                  I've read BALLS OUT back in the day and sure it's good.

                  The example actually seem to be confirming the OP's hypothesis, which is that the way it's written helps it stand out and heightens the storytelling. The voice..
                  you're taking a generalization, like "the way it's written" and presenting it as element of screenwriting. What they were saying is that you should write poetry and flowery descriptions in the action lines to sell the script to the reader... the opposing idea would be that someone chooses to write action lines poorly?


                  As for Balls Out, I'm just going by what I've read the screenwriters have said and what they've been told by producers about the script... that this script was never a spec, just a larp about the state of action screenplays

                  where did you read that Balls Out was a good example for writers in writing action lines?


                  Originally posted by muckraker View Post
                  I would argue that ten people can write the same screenplay, beat for beat, without altering the dialogue even, and convey the story in a different voice. Having a good voice can be the difference between a great story poorly or competently executed and an all-around great script
                  there's a huge difference between action lines in a screenplay and prose in a novel... seems very basic. Am I confused by what you're saying?
                  Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

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                  • #24
                    Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

                    Originally posted by muckraker View Post
                    I would argue that ten people can write the same screenplay, beat for beat, without altering the dialogue even, and convey the story in a different voice. Having a good voice can be the difference between a great story poorly or competently executed and an all-around great script.
                    Originally posted by Julysses View Post
                    there's a huge difference between action lines in a screenplay and prose in a novel... seems very basic. Am I confused by what you're saying?
                    Isn't it obvious that changes in word choice and sentence structure in the Balls Out action/description lines would change the tone and voice of the piece.

                    You could change words while keeping every shot the way it is and the read would "sound" and feel different.

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                    • #25
                      Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

                      Originally posted by Julysses View Post
                      there's a huge difference between action lines in a screenplay and prose in a novel... seems very basic. Am I confused by what you're saying?
                      Julysses, muckracker's point was that writers possess their own unique voice, which means their stories are gonna be different. The major elements that form the story that writers will use to tell their story are gonna be different: themes, characters, plot, etc.

                      Sure, some of the writers may use the same theme, or whatever, but all ten writers are not gonna be telling the same story in the same exact way.

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                      • #26
                        Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

                        Originally posted by muckraker View Post
                        I would argue that ten people can write the same screenplay, beat for beat, without altering the dialogue even, and convey the story in a different voice. Having a good voice can be the difference between a great story poorly or competently executed and an all-around great script.
                        what mudraker is saying is that if you took different writers, say Shane Black, Jon Spaihts, James Cameron, and even any one of us, that you (strikeout) could (edited for clarity) have a different tone and would definitely have a different voice(edited for clarity) from each of them, even if they were writing the same beats.

                        this has nothing to do with the difference between screenplays and novels. btw, you can be poetic in screenplays and still be efficient, concise, and economic.
                        Last edited by finalact4; 07-02-2019, 12:55 PM.
                        "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

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                        • #27
                          Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

                          Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
                          Isn't it obvious that changes in word choice and sentence structure in the Balls Out action/description lines would change the tone and voice of the piece.

                          You could change words while keeping every shot the way it is and the read would "sound" and feel different.
                          who's debating this? obviously that's true

                          but, it's not a sellable screenplay... it was on the blacklist along with Tarantino's Inglorious Bastards and other huge screenplays at the time and was never even optioned

                          are you saying that you don't understand that it was a troll and was never intended to be a spec script? ...this is what Spellman and Talbott have said this in interviews... on the screenplay it says, 'written by The Robotard 8000'

                          I'm so confused as to why would think any of these things
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                          • #28
                            Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

                            Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                            what mudraker is saying is that if you took different writers, say Shane Black, Jon Spaihts, James Cameron, and even any one of us, that you would have a different tone from each of them even if they were writing the same beats.

                            this has nothing to do with the difference between screenplays and novels. btw, you can be peotic in screenplays and still be efficient, concise, and economic.
                            so the words I choose in the action lines will raise tension in the movie that's show in theaters?

                            No, it's the beats on the page that raise tension in the script

                            These are basic to do with being a screenwriter or playwrite .. are there times I would break the rules? sure... if there's a reason to do so... it's all about the pejorative and concept of the script

                            A screenwriter could conceive that they don't want to break up dialog on the page, and after the initial slugline, write a paragraph description of direction -- use only dialog until the next slug or scene

                            you could write a script about a deaf person and have no dialog and write sparingly, down the page to fit the concept of a screenplay format
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                            • #29
                              Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

                              I really am confused as to how a choice of words in the action lines can raise tension -- sure, it makes for a better read, but it's is all about the beat and scene writing

                              It's almost like you guys are in some Sci-Fi world and think AI is real and fighting for the concept of a human voice on a screenplay

                              Originally posted by AlexJones
                              We need to fight against the robotard 8000, we need add a human element to every screenplay! these movies are making our frogs gay!
                              Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

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                              • #30
                                Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

                                Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                                what mudraker is saying is that if you took different writers, say Shane Black, Jon Spaihts, James Cameron, and even any one of us, that you would have a different tone from each of them even if they were writing the same beats.
                                finalact4, your opinion is confusing me.

                                I thought muckracker was talking about the writer's overall voice, which includes tone, but you say muckracker was talking only specifically about tone.

                                Are you saying muckracker's point is that if you take 10 writers and give them a comedy premise/concept the tone of the material would end up being told with ten different attitudes, such as, farcical, dark, arrogant, formal, informal, etc.?

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