High Concept vs New High Concept

[Bono Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bono]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

Did anyone mention that The Dead Zone was a Stephen King novel first before being made in a movie? So that 2012 novel ripped that off that.

With ideas like this to me -- you can do it again and again and again, just have to find that twist that makes it different.

What if the person can only see how people die if she cares about them or something? Or sleeps with them? Or is related to them?

Or what if the person touched someone by accident during a busy NYC rush hour (remember those?), she dropped her glove and she sees this person is going to end up killing us all -- like the dead zone. But in this one, she has to find a needle in a haystack as it's NYC and she lost the person in the crowd. Can always spin it like that.

[sc111 Member Find all posts View Profile Close sc111]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

Did anyone mention that The Dead Zone was a Stephen King novel first before being made in a movie? So that 2012 novel ripped that off that.

With ideas like this to me -- you can do it again and again and again, just have to find that twist that makes it different.

What if the person can only see how people die if she cares about them or something? Or sleeps with them? Or is related to them?

Or what if the person touched someone by accident during a busy NYC rush hour (remember those?), she dropped her glove and she sees this person is going to end up killing us all -- like the dead zone. But in this one, she has to find a needle in a haystack as it's NYC and she lost the person in the crowd. Can always spin it like that.

So you're talking Joe into picking up the script again? After he explained how he followed the advice on how to decide to discard a concept?

[Bono Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bono]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

New idea to me. Thought setup was still good, just needs a twist. Something me and Jeff have said and others too.

Same, but different is a good mantra.

[sc111 Member Find all posts View Profile Close sc111]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

New idea to me. Thought setup was still good, just needs a twist. Something me and Jeff have said and others too.

Same, but different is a good mantra.

I see. You and Jeff. 😉

[Bono Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bono]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

I don't speak emojis. No idea what you're trying to say.

[Prezzy Regular Find all posts View Profile Close Prezzy]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

Joe, I'm going to be one hundred percent honest, the logline intrigued me, but you lost me with the gloves bit because I went, "Awww. That sounds just like Dead Zone".

When I read the logline, my mind immediately jumped to the idea of a crazy guy foreseeing this girl's murder, only to end up inadvertently murdering her in the process of trying to prevent it, accidentally making it a self-fulfilling prophecy in a twist ending.

I think you have something to work with in any case. You just need to find a way to differentiate yourself if you ever decide to try your hand with the concept.

[sc111 Member Find all posts View Profile Close sc111]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

sc111, I'm going to be one hundred percent honest, the logline intrigued me, but you lost me with the gloves bit because I went, "Awww. That sounds just like Dead Zone".

When I read the logline, my mind immediately jumped to the idea of a crazy guy foreseeing this girl's murder, only to end up inadvertently murdering her in the process of trying to prevent it, accidentally making it a self-fulfilling prophecy in a twist ending.

I think you have something to work with in any case. You just need to find a way to differentiate yourself.

It's not my log. It's JoeNYCs log. And he did set it aside when he discovered Dead Zone.

I was surprised Bono seemed to be advising Joe to pursue it after all the advice to the contrary.

[Prezzy Regular Find all posts View Profile Close Prezzy]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

Yeah. That was my bad. I corrected it. That's what I get for skimming a thread on my phone.

[Bono Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bono]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

Joe, I'm going to be one hundred percent honest, the logline intrigued me, but you lost me with the gloves bit because I went, "Awww. That sounds just like Dead Zone".

When I read the logline, my mind immediately jumped to the idea of a crazy guy foreseeing this girl's murder, only to end up inadvertently murdering her in the process of trying to prevent it, accidentally making it a self-fulfilling prophecy in a twist ending.

I think you have something to work with in any case. You just need to find a way to differentiate yourself if you ever decide to try your hand with the concept.

But there was something there. It had "good bones." If he writes it exactly as he pitched it, yeah that won't work as it's been done and by the most famous author we have. But if you take 50% (the setup) and try a new plot, it may work.

That BTW is what I've been saying in many posts, but people might have missed that. I mean there have been many threads and 25% of those threads are filled with fighting, so real points were missed.

It's not all or nothing with ideas for me. Some you have to finesse.

I just started a thread INBOX to show how a nugget of an idea can maybe lead to great idea to write.

[Prezzy Regular Find all posts View Profile Close Prezzy]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

But there was something there. It had "good bones." If he writes it exactly as he pitched it, yeah that won't work as it's been done and by the most famous author we have. But if you take 50% (the setup) and try a new plot, it may work.

That BTW is what I've been saying in many posts, but people might have missed that. I mean there have been many threads and 25% of those threads are filled with fighting, so real points were missed.

It's not all or nothing with ideas for me. Some you have to finesse.

I just started a thread INBOX to show how a nugget of an idea can maybe lead to great idea to write.

Uh oh. I see the idea vs. execution argument rearing its ugly head in the near future.

But yeah, the idea was halfway there. Unfortunately, the plan for execution was really derivative. It could have been reworked to not be that way though.

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Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

Wasn’t a variation of that that also one of Bruce Willis’s superpowers in Unbreakable? By touching people, he was able to see their sins.

[Julysses User Find all posts View Profile Close Julysses]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

No one can stop any writer from writing what they want. You have to make all these choices for yourself at the end of the day.

no doubt. Eventually, you're going to have to sell you pile to some unsuspecting idiot and defend your choices -- or lose the project in turn around or possibly not get the sale.

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Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

When I have a new idea, I pitch it far and wide because I'm dying for someone to kill it. If it turns out it's been done or there's some flaw in it I can't answer, I want to know that before I invest all the time and energy in writing it.

It's the ones they can't kill that you should write.

you're in a different position than anyone else on the board in that you can get a meeting and pitch an idea without a script. [I assume]

could be because of this process and having a good network of readers and professionals to bounce ideas off of...

getting notes or criticism from someone who isn't a screenwriter could be safer and easier to digest?

[Julysses User Find all posts View Profile Close Julysses]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

This is sound advice. This is what I do.

For example, years ago I posted a Thriller story idea in the LOGLINE forum:

When an introvert, undergoing psychotherapy for delusions, foresees a young woman's brutal murder, he must get close to her to stop the killer.

The protagonist wears gloves because when he touches someone -- skin to skin contact -- he foresees that person's future.

that's basically a scene from Unbreakable

A member mentioned that a novel that was published in 2012 titled "Blackbird" by Chuck Wendig had a similar setup. I check out the novel and it had the same hook: When the female protagonist touched someone -- skin to skin contact -- she knows how and when your final moments will occur.

Then later, I came across a Christopher Walken movie titled THE DEAD ZONE, released in 1983, where after waking up from a 5 year comma, whenever he touches someone - skin to skin - he foresees their future.

it's a Stephen King novel and the story has little to do with the 'superpower' and everything to with a thematic idea of a Paradox -- King writes supernatural stories, so that's why I assume he made the choice -- HG Welles wrote Sci-Fi so he made it about time travel...

from your logline, I have no idea what the story is about and who the antagonist is...

how do you turn this into a high-concept idea? I would play to the genre that you're in -- Thriller -- so I would lose the inner journey and focus on the outer goal that promotes change in the protag and reveals the antag

so what stories is this similar too? Maybe Hitchcock's Vertigo? [but, he only created that element of the story to utilize special camera shot] or Memento where is also has a gimmick in telling the story

[SundownInRetreat Member Find all posts View Profile Close SundownInRetreat]

Re: High Concept vs New High Concept

That all said, the only thing I think about in terms of marketability when I'm contemplating an idea is whether or not it's something I would want to see.

Which is a different topic to this one.

Smaller Passionate Ideas are that little restaurant around the corner that has two things on the menu and if you don't like those dishes, it isn't for you.

So as always eat what you want (write what you want) but if you are picking a restaurant for a group of people to enjoy (get spec read/sold/loved by others besides you) than pick a place that everyone loves not just you.

Exactly.

By the way, look at the history of the Nicholl Fellowship's winners' story idea and tell me there isn't at least one that you would have believed was mediocre -- if you were honest to admit it.

I believe the vast majority suck. I think the Nicholl is a dull competition which focusses on self-aggrandising superiority, academic vs entertaining. The only one that caught my interest was Arlington Road.

For example, if I was okay with telling a writer something was mediocre and a member posted the concept/logline to DUDE, WHERE'S MY CAR, I would differently had told him, bro, that is one uninteresting concept. Think of something better, but I would have been wrong because it connected with an audience and it was a commercial success.

But if multiple people are telling him (along with himself) then I think that's a good indicator. Can we be sure, every single time? Of course not but then by that logic we'll never make a choice, be it 'yes' or 'no', because we could be wrong, so at some point you've got to make a decision and also heed others. Most of all though, is the YOU factor. If YOU think it' mediocre and if YOU think it's not that appealing then why would YOU persevere in the vain hope that enough people out there disagree with YOU? And how likely are YOU to be inspired to write that story and give it your all and make it one of the best scripts YOU have written - all of which is essential to get YOU in the Big Time.

Ultimately, it's each to their own, and if you want to defer to the possibility that you and the consensus is wrong then fine, knock yourself out but to me, if I'm not convinced by a notion, or I get enough naysayers to give me doubt, then I'm not going to waste my time second-guessing who's right and who's wrong.

When I have a new idea, I pitch it far and wide because I’m dying for someone to kill it. If it turns out it’s been done or there’s some flaw in it I can’t answer, I want to know that before I invest all the time and energy in writing it.

It’s the ones they can’t kill that you should write.

And have them pinch your idea for themselves! I know you can't copyright ideas but something unique like The Matrix, The Terminator, Ghostbusters is going to sell and anything similar is going to be seen as a derivative and compared unfavourably. So if your peers (especially professionals who you know can write fast and write exceedingly well) get their first with your concept then you're gonna be the bridesmaid that dropped the bouquet.