Darabont on Screenwriting

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  • Deus Ex Machine
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    I've got all the major beats worked out in my head


    Sounds like you do have an outline. It's just not on paper.

    Leave a comment:


  • dgrunert
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    Y'know, I don't disagree with what CE and Deus are saying. And if I were writing a script that was really complicated with lots of twists, I'd definitely use an outline or treatment.

    The script I'm working on now, however, is very small. I've got all the major beats worked out in my head, and instead of toiling away on an outline, I just want to dive in. But part of me felt guilty about doing that... until I heard what Darabont had to say.

    I knew I'd be opening a big ol' can of worms by bringing this up, but I'm glad that I did.

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  • Deus Ex Machine
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    I just found it interesting that such an established screenwriter like Frank Darabont doesn't like to use 'em.



    That's not what he said. He said there are times when he prefers not to use them. Big difference.


    For me it is a productivity issue. I could write the script without an outline but when I did try it, it resulted in bloated unfocused first drafts while using an outline produces tight focused first drafts. The net result for me, is that starting with an outline results in fewer and faster rewrites than starting without an outline does.

    I've been told by several reps that a new writer should be producing three original specs per year, unless you are working on an assignment, in order to have enough new material for your rep to shop around. Once you are established you can dial back that original output but to get established it takes a lot of original material. You need to have the chops produce material and IMHO using an outline is the best way to increase your productivity and develop your chops.

    When you are writing under a deadline, you don't have time to spend years tinkering with a script and following the characters around hoping they might make a story happen. You have to produce a tight focused script quickly. Using an outline on your own material is good practice to develop the skills to produce quality material quickly that you will need when you do land an assignment.

    I don't have years to spend years tinkering with a bloated unfocused script script and that's why I use an outline.

    IMHO when Darabont occasionally doesn't use an outline, I would be willing to bet almost anything that a man with his skill and experience has already figured out where the story starts, where it will end, and although he may not know every beat in act two he probably does have a pretty good idea where he is going in his head before he sits down and starts writing.

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  • dgrunert
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    I tend to have my script "outlined" in my head, and usually that "outline" is pretty detailed. At one time, I can have 3 or 4 movies in my head. I realize if I wrote down these ideas, I wouldn't occassionally forget some important moments, but I always feel like if my mind dumps an idea, it probably wasn't very good to begin with.

    I don't frown upon treatments and outlines, not at all. I just found it interesting that such an established screenwriter like Frank Darabont doesn't like to use 'em.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geevie
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    In my case it's productivity. I needed to get a project done quick. I couldn't waste any time, I needed a good product ASAP.

    This is how I did it.

    And the great thing is your characters can still develop on their own and come alive even when you start from an outline.

    I thought I'd lose that if I outlined which is why it took me so long to actually sit down and write one.

    But again it comes down to whatever works for you is fine.

    There are no color by number formulas that make your script great except for a lot of talent and hard work.

    Leave a comment:


  • AnconRanger
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    yes.

    cards, too.

    read lots of books on these things...got cross-eyed looking at some diagram or graph chart about a story once. points on a line and so on.

    good education, i guess, it all helps in some way, but trying to follow that stuff left my stuff hollow. characters that smell like cardboard, etc.

    doesn't work for me. i have to write out a ton of stuff to the point where i know the characters and they tell me what they would do and i just write down what they would say...not, what would so and so say here? oh, she would say "this" because it's important because coming up...

    the "important" thing coming up is never that important writing that way, if that makes sense.

    i work best leaving 'what's coming up' blank. until i get to 'what's coming up.'

    where you stare at the screen. you stare. you can be lazy, or you can take the hard way out.

    hard way is a hard way.

    hard way is generally the...way.

    the one thing that drives me crazy on this board is the constant talk of time and so on, got to do this and got to do that, write one script, write another, write another, write another. write another. write one more and you'll start getting the hang out of it. hang out of what?

    how to more efficiently write better crafted mediocre stories?

    hardly ever see someone saying...focus on your best story, the one that means the most to you, and bring it to life. do all for it that you can. take your watch off. focus on that story.

    rarely see that here.

    like in this thread, it saves "time" to work off an outline.

    what "time?"

    time to get it "done" to write something else?

    get to work on that next script?

    what?

    if you're trying to get something done to write something else, can the first thing and write the thing you want to really write i would suggest. and go into it thinking that it may take a ton of effort and time to see it through.

    and of course outline from the get-go if it helps you write a good story.

    i sometimes outline after i have a big mess to pull myself back from my own story, and try to look at what i have as objectively as i can in raw terms. i change my hat from writer to story scientist.

    don't like to do that in the beginning. no...

    not when i'm developing a story.

    no way. i let the fingers go where they want to in the beginning. they're much smarter than i am.

    but it's all good, whatever works.
    Last edited by AnconRanger; 05-22-2005, 09:13 PM.

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  • Geevie
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    Just curious.

    Have you ever tried outlining?

    Leave a comment:


  • AnconRanger
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    i prefer to just hit the road.

    it's all good like you say.

    i like aggravation and don't wear a watch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geevie
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    I do it because it saves time and aggrevation for me.

    That's why I recommend it.

    If there are others who can do it well without it, then kudos to them.

    I prefer to have the roadmap.

    Leave a comment:


  • AnconRanger
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    vig, gotcha.

    geevie, understand what you're saying, but writing yourself into a corner is a good place to be.

    you're uncomfortable.

    time stops.

    your fingers don't know what to do on the keyboard.

    sometimes that's where really good stuff happens.

    yes?

    sometimes not. sometimes, you're just lost. time to rewrite yourself out of the corner you've written yourself into.

    but the story went that way for a reason. for some reason it went that way.

    i don't think outlining saves time or anything else. some do it because it helps writing a story that works, some don't.

    potato...tomato
    Last edited by AnconRanger; 05-22-2005, 08:16 PM.

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  • Geevie
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    You say potato....

    I'm just saying that before I used an outline I ended up in Second Act hell where I had to rewrite my way out of all the corners I wrote myself into.

    Not so much when I have an outline... I'm able to circumvent these problems before I ever type fade in.

    Which makes it easier and quicker to get the first draft completed.

    Which is why I say it saves a lot in the long run.

    Leave a comment:


  • vig
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    that's what i'm saying ancon, i have 300 pages of a mess i call a script as well.
    but it becomes a 100 page script faster than it used to, with or without an outlne.

    maybe know it only becomes a 150 page mess, which gets whitted down to 98.

    vig

    Leave a comment:


  • AnconRanger
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    vig, that mess i speak of isn't my script. it's a story being developed.

    jake, agree landmarks are nice to know, old pard.

    geevie, couldn't disagree with this more-

    "But if anyone asked my opinion, I'd say embrace the outline. It saves so much over the long run."

    really...

    saves so much what?

    but if it's good for you and other writers, it's good for you and other writers.

    best of luck to all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geevie
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    I felt the same way when I started. I didn't want to waste time with the outline, I wanted to dive right in and start writing.

    The problem with that, for me, is that by the second act I was at a serious disadvantage. The inmates were in control of the asylum, as it were. I was writing scripts like I wrote my novels, letting the story grow and develop as I wrote instead of me directing it. Interesting note: characters do not understand script structure.

    If you were to read all my scripts now I believe you could definitely identify which ones were written without a "roadmap".

    Does that mean I write professionally? I consider writing professionally when I can put my script side by side with a produced script and you couldn't tell the difference.

    How it gets there, well like XL said - whatever works.

    But if anyone asked my opinion, I'd say embrace the outline. It saves so much over the long run.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jake Schuster
    replied
    Re: Darabont on Screenwriting

    I write my novels that way, but would get in big trouble doing scripts with that method. With all the limitations that are built into writing screenplays, it's best, I find, to have a number of landmarks along the way.

    Leave a comment:

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