Act lengths

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  • Act lengths

    As the generally recommended script length gets shorter (from 120 to 110 or 105) is there a general consensus on how this effects act lengths?

    The classic standard guidelines based on 120 pages are:

    Act 1 = approx. 30 pages
    Act 2 = approx. 60 pages
    (midpoint at approx. page 60)
    Act 3 = approx. 30 pages

    Does the shortening of the script reduce all the acts proportionally? Or would the standard 30 page Act 1 remain the same and the others get shorter?

    Is there any kind of new standard?
    You're a mighty master of minutia. Your enemies fear you.

  • #2
    Re: Act lengths

    I don't know what the standard is, but I tend to shorten my first and third acts.

    A 100-pager might be 20-60-20.
    They cursed us forever, making us prefer dreams to lives.

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    • #3
      Re: Act lengths

      I don't see how you could go wrong by just shortening all acts proportionately. Keeping in mind, of course, that the 30-60-30 thing was never more than an open-ended guideline that applies to many -- but not all -- scripts.

      But is the generally recommended script length really getting shorter, even as movies have generally been getting longer?

      Where does the recommended script length come from? Agents? Managers? Producers? Or books and magazines? (In other words: Does this recommended script length and its dwindling size come from the real world of filmmaking and filmmakers...or elsewhere?)

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      • #4
        Re: Act lengths

        2nd act twice as long as the 1st and 3rd. Take it to the bank.

        25-50-25
        30-60-30
        23-46-23

        Short Films
        5-10-5
        2-4-2
        10-20-10

        It's like PI. It's a non-negotiable mathamatical formula.
        "Entertaining the world is a full time, up at dawn, never ending siege, the likes of which you will never fully understand."
        Billy Thrilly 2005

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        • #5
          Re: Act lengths

          All it takes is one trip to the cineplex (oof, did I just use that expression) to see that as far as Hollywood mainstream movies go - act I is an endangered species. 30 minutes is unheard of. 25 is pushing it. The recently dictated 20 minute standard is now about the longest you'll see anymore. The order of the day is set up and get it on as fast as you possibly can.

          Like I said, that's for mainstream hollywood movies. If that's not your cup of tea, then don't worry about it.

          Where does the recommended script length come from? Agents? Managers? Producers? Or books and magazines? (In other words: Does this recommended script length and its dwindling size come from the real world of filmmaking and filmmakers...or elsewhere?)
          It comes from the audience. What they like, what they dislike. Every minute of the studio film is tested and retested with audiences. THEY are the ultimate arbiters of the shape the studio film will take in the future. If the notes from the attention-span addled test audience keep coming back "It took too long to get started," then first acts will get shorter and shorter.
          It's a celebration, bitches.

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          • #6
            Re: Act lengths

            this is only my take on the situation but one of the prevailing reasons why scripts are shorter is the standard has changed, the new set of writers have learned to trim the prose, and write leaner.

            a leaner script could say the same thing with one page every ten trimmed just for economy. i'm not forsaken the quality and structure in place of brevity, but the tighter the script the better. i've found that my scripts are coming in at 100 pages there abouts, 98.

            we are drilled to write lean, that's translating into less pages. and this may not mean anything, but oddly, when i discuss things with people, it's not their first question, but they do ask how many pages. i do it.

            the more i learn about screenwiting the more i undrstand that those who are in the business have such a huge load of product to sift through that all these little things add up to, a reader skimming the script, looking at page count, checking format, all the little things.

            i actually had a person who i'm waiting to read a script, after three weeks i emailed just for a headsup and he said, and i quote "your's is in a stack that is 100 pages or less, call in a month, or i call you, if i don't call you, consider that bad news and drop me an email.

            this response might be a ridiculous response, and people might say right, that doesn't happen, blah, blah... but the fact is, he said it, and he meant it, and he said it to me cause he knows i just want the truth and the truth was, give me a 100 pages,forget the cutesy crap, give me story, and get me inovolved on the first page cause i haven't seen my wife it three weeks and if i read one more mob, vampire, so and so script script with (axiom) i'm going to suck my own blood from my neck and call it a carrer.

            vig

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            • #7
              Re: Act lengths

              The people who have to read scripts prefer shorter, squirmy audiences prefer shorter, and studios and theater owners prefer shorter because they can fit in more showings per day.

              I used to believe in cutting back on the first act to get the story started faster, but now I believe in the 1/4 --1/2 -- 1/4 ratio of Act I, II, and III.

              Act II is the hardest to sustain and keep interesting, and it's even harder if you cut the first act short. You needn't worry, as I used to, that readers will turn on you if you don't get right into Act II by page 10 or so. I have found that as long as you make your readers feel they're in competent hands, with an entertaining and unique first page, and a sense in the early pages that you're not just rambling, you're leading them into a story, they'll have patience for a full-length Act I. (And you'll have less trouble sustaining a more manageable Act II.)

              If you write engagingly, with an awareness of what the audience would likely be thinking and feeling, you can make full use of Act I without boring anyone. It's the time to introduce your characters and world, create sympathy, introduce your story problem, raise intriguing questions, and set up all kinds of things that will pay off later, all while making things happen and invoking emotional response. With a complete Act I, people will care more what happens in Act II and III. Audience caring is what it's about.

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              • #8
                Re: Act lengths

                Act one = 30%

                Act two = 50%

                Act three = 20%

                115 is the new 120 as the preferred outside limit for length. Shorter means cheaper to make, shorter running times mean more showings of a film that can be done in a single day and less cutting when shown on TV.

                It's true that readers do prefer a short script, but so does everyone in HW.

                Drama/action/thrillers average 105 - 115
                Comedy/rom-com average 90-110

                Try to hit that range but, don't obsess over it, it's just an average.
                Fortune favors the bold - Virgil

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                • #9
                  Re: Act lengths

                  I like Deus' percentages. Act one, if it's done right, should be highly entertaining, not just a means to get you into the story. Lots of complexity and building tension, until the protag shifts gears. 30-33 pages (in a 100-110 pager) is fine--if it's gripping. Increase the pace all the way through act two, with act three almost a blur. One or two pages after the climax is all you need. Short is good, but fast-paced (esp. ever-increasing pace) is better.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Act lengths

                    It comes from the audience. What they like, what they dislike.
                    No, I mean who's telling the screenwriter that scripts need to be shorter? Moviegoers aren't telling writers that, so who is?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Act lengths

                      Originally posted by writerly
                      I agree generally with this but have you seen ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13? Talk about set-up. Stuff doesn't happen until 30.
                      Was it a good movie? I don't remember hearing great things about it.

                      Act one, if it's done right, should be highly entertaining, not just a means to get you into the story.
                      That goes without saying no matter how long your script is and is immutable.

                      Lots of complexity and building tension, until the protag shifts gears. 30-33 pages (in a 100-110 pager) is fine
                      Once again, speaking strictly in terms of the Hollywood mainstream script, I think that is dangerously long.


                      Mr. Whiskey. I have gotten comments about script length from producers and agents and managers, but I doubt one source within the industry could be pinpointed as originating the trend.
                      It's a celebration, bitches.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Act lengths

                        I agree with everything Bad Liver said.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Act lengths

                          I agree with every third word Erehwon said.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Act lengths

                            "with" "liver"

                            right!

                            yeah, you know, write a good story and nobody cares if your first act is 20, 30 or 80 pages.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Act lengths

                              :lol


                              I knew it was just a matter of time before that ol' chesnut was thrown into the fray.

                              I disagree with erehwon's vowels.





                              I said "VOWELS."
                              It's a celebration, bitches.

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