Moral ambiguity

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  • #16
    Re: Moral ambiguity

    I'm not sure I understand your problem. If you're shooting for an indie film, then representing morally ambiguous characters can be a big plus. With indie's you're trying to attract a more intellectual audience who can tolerate moral ambiguity.



    In commercial films, you have to be more careful. Presenting a protagonist or an antagonist in a morally ambiguous light can be risky. For a protagonist, his morally reprehensible trait should have a justification that we can relate to. Like the protag of MINORITY REPORT, who was a drug addict due to his inability to face the tragic loss of his young son.



    For the antagonist, a villain who, at least from his POV, has a moral reason to act intrigues most audiences. Purely evil villains are cartoonish. Okay for action flicks, but not for more serious material. For example, the antagonist in THE PATRIOT was just too evil to be believable. If he were shown to be a great loyalist, he would have been more intriguing.

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    • #17
      Re: Moral ambiguity

      Originally posted by BetterThanNormal
      Miles,

      Yeah I have a logline for it. Everything works, plot's tight, characters are likable, engaging and interesting, dialog is snappy and tight, structure is solid, stakes are high enough...it's all there. It's just this little moral thing that troubles me.

      BTN
      Excellent. About the moral thing, I'd say just go with your gut instincts and work it out to your satisfaction. But, you know, it's not going to be perfect. Go for it.

      Miles

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      • #18
        Re: Moral ambiguity

        i wouldn't try to 'dumb things down.'

        it will make you the dumber one, in my opinion.

        most people aren't as dumb as they look (a line i used once in a job interview. got the job).

        is your story the story you want on the page with your name on it after all of your hard work and study and second guesses?

        get behind it or change it. but don't dumb anything down.

        in my dumb opinion.
        Last edited by AnconRanger; 08-07-2005, 08:02 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: Moral ambiguity

          Thanks all. Some very good advice from everyone.

          Jordan, the indie thing is a good point. The same thought had crossed my mind.

          I think I will take Miles' advice and just throw it out there and hope it finds a home.

          BTN


          "Only he is an emancipated thinker who is not afraid to write foolish things.-
          -Chekhov

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          • #20
            Re: Moral ambiguity

            Just to play devil's advocate here: but what if you're entering into the swamp of moral relativism (so swampy, I can't spell it)?

            You say one does the "right" thing for the "wrong" reason ... another the "wrong" thing for the "right" reason. But whose CRITERIA, by whose moral standards, are you then judging the characters' actions and motives?

            What is "right" and what is "wrong" (and how is the audience to identify and understand) ... if in the context of your story (and the world it creates) the Good do wrong and the Evil do right?

            I cannot know your story and ideas ... BUT I'd suggest that at some point, you are falling back on the AUDIENCE'S definitions of right and wrong? And those seem to contradict the characters you are asking them to understand and identify with?

            In your own words ... THAT (it seems) risks murkiness, confusion, alienation of the audience, etc.

            One guy pulls pleading orphans from a burning building, another torched the place knowing it's full of orphans; how much can YOU as writer make the audience care what their "motives" were?

            It's a challenge, I'd say. But hey -- if you carry it off and people LAUGH -- you'll be scoring BIG good buzz!
            sigpic
            "As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world -
            that is the myth of the atomic age - as in being able to remake ourselves."
            -Mahatma Gandhi.

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            • #21
              Shooting yourself in the foot

              Well, if it seems confusing and murky to *you*, I'd worry that ot may be confusing and murky to people who didn't write the script....

              But I'd also be concerned about writing a script about contemp Hollywood - since that's the kiss of death as far as subject matter is concerned. Audiences tend to not be interested in Hollywood (two Al Pacino movies about the biz flopped) and most writers just don't know enough about how Hollywood works to make their script believable. Also, Hollywood stories tend not to be high concept - and even that Al Pacino movie that *was* high concept (the digital movie star) flopped.

              - Bill
              Free Script Tips:
              http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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              • #22
                Re: Moral ambiguity

                You know the problem may not be in the moral character of your two players but the out come of their actions.

                Remember your trying to sell us a story that has something to say about us (the audience) if not itself. If you end the story where irony cancels each other out than you have said nothing at all.

                When we leave the theatre what statement should be swimming in our heads? Is the anatagonist right all along? Or is the protagonist right all along?

                You can't say their both right or both wrong or you wasted two hours of my life.

                A story should end either on a positive charge or a negative charge. So look hard at your ending and see if you have accomplished this out come.

                If not then go back and re-write the ending or the story if need be.

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                • #23
                  Re: Moral ambiguity

                  Thanks again for the input gang. I'll address each reply as best I can.

                  Tabula

                  The right and wrong thing is about truth vs. lies. The antag uses the truth to advance his own career while inadvertantly but callously hurting the protags, while and the protags use lies in a harmless way to save their own butts from disaster. The truth/lie lies in the protag's lurid past. The subject matter is not so heavy that it would alienate anyone and the moral question ain't all that heavy.

                  WC

                  Valid points. But those were dramas. This is a comedy. And in this one H'wood is taking a back seat to the story, it's not the main character here as it was in those other films (S1MONE) in this one it's more of a backdrop, a setting. This way the story won't alienate the general audience. And what they can't relate to they can laugh at, which will help make its appeal more universal.

                  HD

                  IN the end the antags succeds but does not prosper by his actions. The protags lies fail but they succeed when the truth is revealed.

                  Although I've been reluctant to do so up until now because although this is a completed work it is not yet registered, I will give you the logline in order to give you a more accurate idea of the story. Remember it's a comedy.

                  When the male lead of a G-rated family film is suddenly incapacitated he is replaced at the last minute with an out of work porn actor with big dreams of stardom and stifling insecurities. But an unscrupulous tabloid reporter jeopardizes the plan when he threatens to expose the actors lurid past.


                  BTN


                  "Only he is an emancipated thinker who is not afraid to write foolish things.-
                  -Chekhov

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