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  • Bibles

    Does anyone have a lot of experience with show bibles? How detailed do you get? I've seen bibles that have every single beat of ever single episode spelled out (the Wire) and bibles that are just concepts, characters and themes (BSG). I'm an unknown writer with a strong pilot working out the series bible. How much should I include?

  • #2
    Re: Bibles

    There is no hard and fast rule. It's up to you unless you've been asked specifically to provide one. A lot of times you go out with a spec pilot and no bible.

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    • #3
      Re: Bibles

      My agent prefers to have solid descriptions of the main and recurring characters, and the TV Guide blurb to the five eps following the pilot, to give readers an idea of the series, and show that it has legs. My bibles end up two or three pages long, over half of which are focused on the characters.

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      • #4
        Re: Bibles

        I agree with everyone else: depends.

        What you need to do is communicate what the show is. That is as long or as short as you deem necessary. Don't give extraneous details. More doesn't mean better.

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        • #5
          Re: Bibles

          Thanks for all the great feedback. Our first draft of the bible was a series overview, character description, 1/2 page episode synopsis for the first season and then ideas for future seasons. We sent it off to the manager and she just kept asking for more information. Now our episodes descriptions are running 2-3 pages a piece, and she's still asking for more.

          I would almost rather start writing the actual scripts at this point.

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          • #6
            Re: Bibles

            Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
            Thanks for all the great feedback. Our first draft of the bible was a series overview, character description, 1/2 page episode synopsis for the first season and then ideas for future seasons. We sent it off to the manager and she just kept asking for more information. Now our episodes descriptions are running 2-3 pages a piece, and she's still asking for more.

            I would almost rather start writing the actual scripts at this point.
            2-3 pages per episode? And asking for more? That seems kind of ridiculous. That's like a Treatment per episode...

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            • #7
              Re: Bibles

              Originally posted by CthulhuRises View Post
              2-3 pages per episode? And asking for more? That seems kind of ridiculous. That's like a Treatment per episode...
              Yeah, that's way too long, imo. Longer = more likely for people's eyes to glaze over.

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              • #8
                Re: Bibles

                Originally posted by CthulhuRises View Post
                2-3 pages per episode? And asking for more? That seems kind of ridiculous. That's like a Treatment per episode...
                At first we had a 1/2 page per episode. Then we started expanded to cover all her questions. The first 4 episodes were 2-3 pages. Then the rest were about a page (planning on a 13 episode season). Now we're getting to the point where each episode has at least a 2 page treatment.

                I agree that it seems like too much. But we're simply giving the manager what she wants.

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                • #9
                  Re: Bibles

                  Judd Apatow's bible for "Freaks and Geeks" is online. You can find it by searching on Google. It's incredibly detailed, and runs to about 40 pages. The one series I had optioned had a bible based on that one.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Bibles

                    Originally posted by KitesAreFun View Post
                    Judd Apatow's bible for "Freaks and Geeks" is online. You can find it by searching on Google. It's incredibly detailed, and runs to about 40 pages. The one series I had optioned had a bible based on that one.
                    There's always exceptions to the norm...

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                    • #11
                      Re: Bibles

                      Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post

                      I agree that it seems like too much. But we're simply giving the manager what she wants.
                      If you feel like it's too much, veto that sh!t. Reps fvck up and misjudge just as much as anyone else. Writers are in control of their careers. Reps are often just there to advise.

                      It sounds like way too much to me. Long epp descrips are gonna read boring.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Bibles

                        To some people, yes. I remember when I wrote the bible for the series that I had optioned. I believe it was 47 pages, if I remember correctly (I'm not home right now, and so can't check). The producer who bought it later admitted not reading the whole thing, but she loved the two full episodes I had written, and was impressed at how much thought and effort I had put into the whole endeavor. So, there's that.

                        Then again, the show was never made, so there's also that.

                        But I will say it was incredibly helpful to have written such a long bible because I really felt I knew the characters and the universe of the show by the time I was done, and I found myself developing ideas over the course of writing it.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Bibles

                          But Kites,

                          didn't you sell the show before you wrote the bible? I agree that it would be a good thing to help the writer understand his show, but of all the people I know who set up pilots, I can't think of a single one who used a bible to sell it. I think in the current market bibles are outdated.

                          And if the OP is using one as a sales tool, I really can't imagine that the execs are gonna read a massive doc. But it's just an opinion.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Bibles

                            I'll echo Dolphin. Bibles really aren't something people do in a market where spec scripts actually sell. Really the only bible you need is five sample episodes given in a paragraph (a logline for each a, b and c story, basically). It honestly sounds like your manager doesn't know what's needed to sell a show.

                            Has your manager been in touch with any potential buyers? Are there any specific requests for what they want to see? I know that the networks during pilot season get very specific about what kind of additional documentation they want.

                            A lot of the pro writers I know are of the opinion that the more that's put on paper the more there is for someone to find something to disagree with. If it's more than a few pages I think you're really handicapping yourself by offering TMI.

                            People are always looking for excuses to pass. Don't give them some specific for some future episode that's probably going to change but gets stuck in an executive's brain as something that makes the show wrong.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Bibles

                              BattleDolphin: That's correct. The producer who optioned the show asked me to write the bible afterwards. And it's very possible that I ended up doing far more work than was necessary. I guess I was just so impressed and entertained by the "Freaks and Geeks" bible, and the fact that it was Apatow, that I just assumed it was the way to go. I had also never written a bible before. This was back in 2009.

                              killertv: The show was sent out to other entities, several of whom were genuinely interested. And yes, we never even showed them the bible. We just gave them the two fully-written episodes. So, I'm sure you're right about what you're posting.

                              Again, I've only sold one show which was never produced, so I'm not holding myself up as an expert. Just sharing my experiences.

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