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  • #31
    Re: Bibles

    People ALWAYS tell you to chop sh!t down while giving you more sh!t to add. It's frustrating. In all instances of development, try to find ways to lead creatively. Process "notes" and "thoughts", but if you think you have a better way to say something, do it your way first. If you think it's too long, it's too long. Doesn't matter what input you're getting. It's a sick dance, man.

    Is your manager experienced in TV? I don't think he/she should be using a bible to sell the show.

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    • #32
      Re: Bibles

      Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
      People ALWAYS tell you to chop sh!t down while giving you more sh!t to add. It's frustrating. In all instances of development, try to find ways to lead creatively. Process "notes" and "thoughts", but if you think you have a better way to say something, do it your way first. If you think it's too long, it's too long. Doesn't matter what input you're getting. It's a sick dance, man.

      Is your manager experienced in TV? I don't think he/she should be using a bible to sell the show.
      I'm not sure how experienced she is in television, but she is an experience manager. People we talked to after joining up with her recognized her name.

      I don't know exactly what the goal is with the bible. The next step she has told us about is getting signed with one of the agents she works with.

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      • #33
        Re: Bibles

        Originally posted by Kandiman View Post
        I generally make sure I have the first four seasons mapped out (with outlines for at least the first two seasons) because I don't want to find I've pitched something, sold it and discover that "sh!t, I have no ideas past episode three!"
        That's what the writer's room is for. As proved by Lost, you don't have to have a road map for the show. You just come up with stuff in the room.

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        • #34
          Re: Bibles

          Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post

          I don't know exactly what the goal is with the bible. The next step she has told us about is getting signed with one of the agents she works with.
          Well, if she's a vet, you kinda gotta trust her. Sounds like she has a plan.

          Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

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          • #35
            Re: Bibles

            Originally posted by artisone View Post
            That's what the writer's room is for. As proved by Lost, you don't have to have a road map for the show. You just come up with stuff in the room.
            And Lost proved why that doesn't work. The last two seasons were a hurried rash of trying to tie things together, because they hadn't planned properly.
            Trainee Writer Blog

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            • #36
              Re: Bibles

              Originally posted by Kandiman View Post
              And Lost proved why that doesn't work. The last two seasons were a hurried rash of trying to tie things together, because they hadn't planned properly.
              I disagree with this statement. Not that the last last season didn't feel rushed, but I don't think the writers made any attempt to tie things together. Season 6 was more of the same vague mysteries. Then a finale to cap off the characters. I wasn't a fan of the season, but I loved the ending.

              I acknowledge that I get on this thread to whine about the amount of work I'm putting into this bible, but I can partially understand the managers point of view. At this point she's not trying to sell us to a network, she's trying to sell us to an agent. We need to prove that we didn't just luck out and write a good pilot. We can back it up.

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              • #37
                Re: Bibles

                Originally posted by Kandiman View Post
                And Lost proved why that doesn't work. The last two seasons were a hurried rash of trying to tie things together, because they hadn't planned properly.
                THANK YOU. I agree entirely, and I think the fans of Lost will too. That's often the problem with TV, especially sitcoms. Because there is no path set before them, they are beholden to the ideas that are come up with in the room during a writing session. For sitcoms, and even some single camera comedies, it works.

                All too often though, it's just stringing things along until the show dies a slow, horrible death (That 70's Show, The Office). Although, on some occasions it works to improve the show and their characters (as with Bored to Death, Eastbound and Down, and Life and Times of Tim). Or maybe it only works for HBO shows. *shrug*

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                • #38
                  Re: Bibles

                  Originally posted by artisone View Post
                  That's what the writer's room is for. As proved by Lost, you don't have to have a road map for the show. You just come up with stuff in the room.
                  *your name must be "JJ Abrams" or "Damon Lindelof" for this approach to work

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                  • #39
                    Re: Bibles

                    Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                    I acknowledge that I get on this thread to whine about the amount of work I'm putting into this bible, but I can partially understand the managers point of view. At this point she's not trying to sell us to a network, she's trying to sell us to an agent. We need to prove that we didn't just luck out and write a good pilot. We can back it up.
                    If you write a great pilot, that's proof enough for a legit TV lit agent. No one should be trying to sell you as someone who can also run the show in series unless you have a lot of experience in other media. In fact, the agent you'll want to sign with will hopefully have a lot of executive producer clients that your manager should want to get attached to this as showrunners. And I bet they have some different ideas.

                    As far as plotting things out go, we all have scripts where we diverge from outlines. A bible is at best an outline. Have you read the one for THE WIRE? A major character is killed in the first season.

                    In a collaborative, episodic medium like television, it's hard to expect a bible to be set in stone.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Bibles

                      Just saying this is how most shows work. "24" didn't have a road map and most shows don't. Even if you have things planned out for several seasons, once that production train leaves the station, you'll run into problems or opportunities that you didn't see coming. You start writing to the strengths of specific actors, or a story line will take you in a new direction. You'll have budget problems, actor problems, location problems and all of those things will have to be dealt with in story. Don't get me wrong, if having a bible helps sell your idea or helps clarify the story in your head, hit it. But just know that there will always be external issues that will make you scrap that plan.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Bibles

                        Another factor that might be bulking up our bible is that the show is built on a mystery that is played out over the entire first season.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Bibles

                          Thought I'd bump this as I recently finished the Bible for my latest Pilot. 8 pages, about 2 of which are concept art.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Bibles

                            Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                            Another factor that might be bulking up our bible is that the show is built on a mystery that is played out over the entire first season.
                            Try to track down a bible for either version of 'The Killing'. It's one of the few mystery shows that had me guessing the entire time, and then throws a giant "F U!" at the end of the season.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Bibles

                              Recently, I've had a little bit of heat on the TV project I'm trying to sell/set up, and in each of the four situations that manifested themselves last week, the 38-page Series Bible I wrote never even got looked at.

                              In one instance, a production company asked for just a one-page synopsis.

                              In another, a different production company asked for a one-page synopsis plus background of the major characters. This new document, which I culled from the larger Series Bible, came out to eight pages. They read it and loved it, and asked to see the pilot script.

                              In the third, the producer wouldn't even look at the Series Bible until we spoke (we have a phone conference set for this coming Wednesday), but he did say that no development executive would ever look at a 38-page Series Bible.

                              In the fourth, the interested producer had zero interest in the Series Bible. He just wanted to read the pilot.

                              Just passing along my experiences. And bear in mind that this is for a 1/2-hour comedy show. The only wisdom I'd impart based on this is that every entity may have different opinions on the idea of a Series Bible, and be prepared to revise/shorten it on the fly.

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