Adventures In Repville

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  • #31
    Yes, I mean, obviously if someone gives your their personal cell phone number and they know who you are, you shouldn't hassle them. (That'll be chapter one of my book.)

    But you guys are telling me that you can call a manager's office number and they'll pick up, and you think that's a bad thing? (For what it's worth, even when my reps were working from home, I had them personally pick up their office line exactly zero times.) You have 30 seconds to pitch your logline and impress them! And again, what is the worst case scenario? If they don't want to hear it or don't like it, they will never never never remember your name. You can query them in a week in an email.

    I've talked to my manager about querying, and here's the reality: 95% of the emails that go to him are picked up by a filter his company has to weed out queries from people he doesn't know. I'm sure that number isn't as high at lower level management companies, because they're not paying some IT guy to install the filters.

    Take your shot. If you get access to someone who can help you, and you don't ask them for a read because you're afraid you'll offend them... what have you gained? "That person whose name I will never remember didn't bother me."

    I'm not saying anyone has to call people. But the reasons people are giving not to don't make any sense to me.

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    • #32
      And I don't mean to malign Bob's book, which I haven't read. I'm just saying that if I have to recommend one resource, I'd pick something like Mazin and August's podcast - something from people who are making studio films/tv shows and are repped at medium to large agencies/management companies. YMMV.

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      • #33
        I'm just giving advice from someone that looks for reps a lot and has had success getting them to read my work... and what I've heard from them. I don't know 1 person who got a rep by a cold phone call to them.

        I agree in what you're saying that I don't think a cold call will lead to going on some banned list, I just think it's a waste of time and personally some reps do have good memories and would recall your pitch.

        Yes, I would assume the bigger firms block 95% of emails. For sure the easy thing to block would be "query"... But places like CAA have some big filters that know if the email is external and some places seemingly blocked all gmail address from the email even getting through. Then again, I've got read by places with those blocks. But it would make sense why most of us get email requested from the same 100-200 managers because the bigger ones don't even read our emails.

        So anyway, Jeff I'm going to call you to pitch your manager my idea and if he likes it, I can email it to him.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
          And I don't mean to malign Bob's book, which I haven't read. I'm just saying that if I have to recommend one resource, I'd pick something like Mazin and August's podcast - something from people who are making studio films/tv shows and are repped at medium to large agencies/management companies. YMMV.
          Actually, this has been a big point amongst my writer friends trying to break in -- is that Bob's book had great advice for writers like me while Scriptnotes is really for writers like you Jeff and obviously writers like me can get something out of it, but a lot of it is inside baseball talk that only applies to like 1000 writers in Hollywood. Or at least now on episode 500 plus that's how it seems to me.

          Great guys but when when John mentions he got 2.5 million in residuals from Aladdin in a casual way one podcast, well that is a level of writing fame I will never reach. I need more practical working my way up advice and that is what Bob's book did very well.

          In fact, John and Craig hate managers and that's just not the way in works for new writers in 2021. For better or worse, managers who produce are here to stay. right? If I only listened to their advice, I would have never been repped at all.

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          • #35
            My opinion about not calling is not scientific, just what I've come to believe from various resources like podcasts, discussions, a few cold calls many many years ago, etc. Email seems much less intrusive, and won't potentially disrupt anyone's already busy day. I dunno, but I started out querying even before there was email, so maybe I need to try the old snail mail again. Haha.

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            • #36
              Bono:

              If you call my manager and he picks up, pitch away, my friend.

              As for "writers like me" and "writers like you"... I don't think I'm being some kind of elitist because I think that most people here have goals of getting a legitimate manager or agent, joining the writers guild, and working on studio films/tv shows. There are 25k members of the writers guild. There are 500 scripted network shows a year.

              I think taking advice from people who've reached those milestones is the smart way to approach writing as a career.

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              • #37
                Muckraker: Not kidding - I think snail mail isn't a horrible idea. It would stand out, and the odds of it being opened and read by the person you send it to are probably fifty times greater than an email.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                  Bono:

                  If you call my manager and he picks up, pitch away, my friend.

                  As for "writers like me" and "writers like you"... I don't think I'm being some kind of elitist because I think that most people here have goals of getting a legitimate manager or agent, joining the writers guild, and working on studio films/tv shows. There are 25k members of the writers guild. There are 500 scripted network shows a year.

                  I think taking advice from people who've reached those milestones is the smart way to approach writing as a career.
                  I take much advice from you. And John. And Craig. But if I only took advice from writers that already made it 30 years ago, I would not be able to navigate the current waters of being unsold/unrepped writer today. Again, Craig and John seem against managers, Craig of course does. So is that good advice for newbie writers NOT to query managers and only agents these days? I don't think so, Tim.

                  It's like I want to learn from the best writers of all time, so I read and watch their movies. But sometimes you just need practical advice you can only get from your friend who just sold his first spec last month.

                  I'm simply saying, sometimes people who are so far up the food chain in any field don't realize how things may have changed since they got there. And it's not from lack of caring or having started from nothing themselves. It's like me asking Tom Hanks how to land an acting role vs me asking my buddy who just graduated from NYU and landed a Broadway play. Obviously I want to hear what Tom Hanks has to say, but chances are my buddy who is just starting his career in 2021 will have a different POV on how to make it these days.

                  I admit, I'm a dumb idiot and I'm still trying to learn, but I feel that there might be 25K members of the guild, but how many made money last year? Or the year before. It's much much lower than that isn't it?

                  Anyway, it's good to get the board going again. I was excited we had new blood, but we chased him away in less than 10 posts. Impressive!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I got rejected by an agent on Friday that told me he already read my spec as someone was nice enough to pass it along. I don't know who this was exactly -- so that makes me feel good, but also depressing that I queried to find out I got rejected. I wish I know who did it, so I could thank them, but obviously they did it on the DL.

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                    • #40
                      This a great thread highlighting the difficulties of "breaking in" nowadays. It is indeed a "crazy" industry, but I think it's only crazy if you have unrealistic expectations of it (?). I think it's important to understand that we are all trying to create opportunity where there essentially is none -- zero. There's absolutely no reason for anyone who already works in the industry -- be it an agent, manager, director, producer, or otherwise -- to say "yes" to anything from anyone who is not in the industry. They'll occasionally read something if it sounds promising, but they're only covering their bases as they don't want to be the ******* who passed on the next Matrix or Back to the Future. They all already have tons of work, and writers to go to. And they all know each other. It's a very very small industry. So -- of course -- you need something really special to break in. That's just the way it is. It doesn't mean there's no hope, but you have to look at it from the POV of the people who are already working in the industry.

                      To add a little anecdote/color: one of the closest times I came to "breaking in" was four years ago when I optioned a TV pilot to a big-time producer who got his big-time director (and very good/longtime friend) on board and their respective big-time agents, including the top agent at the top agency and even the founder of said agency (!!). There was all this activity going on: I flew down from SF to LA every other week for writing meetings with the producer and the director, and then for pitch meetings with TV networks. It never sold, but I should write a book about everything that happened in between. I always felt like my project was essentially just a little side thing for them just to see if they could do something with it -- and that's exactly what it was. The director and producer were constantly having side conversations about other projects they were doing that were already funded. The producer would hold up his finger during a convo. with me to take a call with Bruce Willis' agent. Haha... it was really fun.. but also opened my eyes to what the industry is: a big family of people who make movies and have been doing it for decades. So - here's an awesome script by this unknown writer. Okay -- let's cut out a little bit of time during our day jobs to see if we can do something with it...
                      Last edited by grumpywriter; 11-07-2021, 03:58 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Bono View Post
                        I take much advice from you. And John. And Craig. But if I only took advice from writers that already made it 30 years ago, I would not be able to navigate the current waters of being unsold/unrepped writer today.
                        Well, I don't just write, I hire writers. I've given a lot of people their first jobs, and I've gotten a lot of unsold writers representatives. And Craig and John and I navigate the actual waters of what it's like to work for studios today. We may have broken in awhile ago, but we actually have insight into what the current landscape is out there for a professional WGA writer. We know what's selling and how it's selling.

                        If people get something out of books from the Bobs of the world, hooray! I just think that's a strange choice for a first recommendation.

                        I admit, I'm a dumb idiot and I'm still trying to learn, but I feel that there might be 25K members of the guild, but how many made money last year? Or the year before. It's much much lower than that isn't it?
                        I think around 7,000 members earn money every year. That's still a lot of people! If I were breaking in, I'd look to one of them for advice. I mean, one of the younger ones, of course.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Querying is a marketing exercise. I do it for a living for clients and I'm also pretty high up the org chart at an agency so I have get tons of people trying to sell me different services. Here are my two cents on best practices:

                          1. I don't follow the rule of just sending a longline. The goal is to sell the person on the script, so that's what I try to do, using more creative approaches. The longline isn't enough, I don't think, at least in regards to the stuff I write.
                          2. Mail will net you double the engagement or more of email. I've only sent mail to two people for film related queries, but it's something worth trying if you have the time and money to do it. I ran a market research department for a time. Mail respondents to surveys was 2 to 1 as I've said. I've seen the data to prove it.
                          3. I don't like talking on the phone. Sometimes people will try to call me out of the blue to sell work related services. It usually goes to voicemail and I don't think I've ever called back, but I don't have log of people who've called. I kind of appreciate the effort. I don't think I'd ever try calling an agent/manager/producer, but there is almost no downside to trying.
                          4. The main reason the stuff I get fails is I'm not the right person for the query. I'm sure people are finding me online or linkedin or whatever and casting a wide net, which is exactly what I do to query industry people. This point is important because I'm sure most of the unresponsive people are not the right audience or don't want to read unsolicited material or whatever. It's hard to find that needle in the haystack. Try everything and everyone. I don't have a brand and I have no equity to lose by trying different things. I think that applies to most here.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post

                            Well, I don't just write, I hire writers. I've given a lot of people their first jobs, and I've gotten a lot of unsold writers representatives. And Craig and John and I navigate the actual waters of what it's like to work for studios today. We may have broken in awhile ago, but we actually have insight into what the current landscape is out there for a professional WGA writer. We know what's selling and how it's selling.

                            If people get something out of books from the Bobs of the world, hooray! I just think that's a strange choice for a first recommendation.


                            I think around 7,000 members earn money every year. That's still a lot of people! If I were breaking in, I'd look to one of them for advice. I mean, one of the younger ones, of course.
                            How about you hire me and I'll stop posting? Deal? Great.

                            And the person I get the most advice from is older than you (ewwww) and has your same manager I think.

                            I think Clint was the one that posted Bob's book, but pretty sure you were the one that took that as the first stop on the screenwriting train. I think Clint was just trying to help Bob out and promote his book on done deal to a new member (who is now gone).

                            So what do you Jeff Lowell think of managers? You have one, so I assume you disagree with scriptnotes duo about that?

                            I'll take good advice from anyone. But I never assume anyone has all the correct answers. I don't even trust myself, hence why I ask questions.





                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by grumpywriter View Post
                              This a great thread highlighting the difficulties of "breaking in" nowadays. It is indeed a "crazy" industry, but I think it's only crazy if you have unrealistic expectations of it (?). I think it's important to understand that we are all trying to create opportunity where there essentially is none -- zero. There's absolutely no reason for anyone who already works in the industry -- be it an agent, manager, director, producer, or otherwise -- to say "yes" to anything from anyone who is not in the industry. They'll occasionally read something if it sounds promising, but they're only covering their bases as they don't want to be the ******* who passed on the next Matrix or Back to the Future. They all already have tons of work, and writers to go to. And they all know each other. It's a very very small industry. So -- of course -- you need something really special to break in. That's just the way it is. It doesn't mean there's no hope, but you have to look at it from the POV of the people who are already working in the industry.
                              After many years, this is now my view of the filmmaking industry based in Los Angeles as it stands today.

                              Originally posted by Bono View Post
                              I don't think Bob said that in his book, not sure why his book (and him) got sucked into this DD throwdown. I read most of the book so far and I enjoyed it. Like any book on screenwriting you don't have to agree with all of it, to agree with much of it. It's a solid book.
                              You are correct. Bob Saenz did not mention telephone queries in his book, AFAIK.

                              Originally posted by Bono View Post

                              I think Clint was the one that posted Bob's book, but pretty sure you were the one that took that as the first stop on the screenwriting train. I think Clint was just trying to help Bob out and promote his book on done deal to a new member (who is now gone).
                              Both sentences are accurate.

                              Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                              And I don't mean to malign Bob's book, which I haven't read.
                              In That’s Not The Way It Works, by Bob Saenz, there are two chapters devoted to marketing a script, and one chapter sandwiched in between them on how not to market a script. You wouldn’t know that, though, because you haven’t read the book (and why would you?).

                              [
                              Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post

                              I'm sure Bob's a nice guy, but I don't think a self-published book by him should be the first stopping place for anyone on the quest for industry knowledge.
                              The book wasn’t suggested as a “first stopping place.” It’s just one of the better books on what a neophyte screenwriter ought to expect when trying to get a script out in the marketplace. It shatters a lot of screenwriting myths, such as the 25-word logline, and a lot more than that.

                              And all from someone who’s made millions on selling his scripts. But, you wouldn’t know that because you haven’t read the book (and again, why would you?).

                              Over the years, I’ve bought a few of these kinds of books, each one claiming they have the answer for “newbie” screenwriters on how to unlock Hollywood’s doors. A distant cousin of mine who sold a martial arts movie and teaches at USC wrote one of them. Even his book was terrible. None of them bothered to have their work proofread before they published. Almost all of these books were merely self-serving tomes of what was their experience on one particular B-grade movie script that either was made or almost was made.

                              The books didn’t deliver on screenwriting knowledge, such as how they queried or how to query. They didn’t deliver on how they networked or how to network. They hardly talked at all about how they got the deal they got. Almost all of the books were a big rip-off that said, “Look at me! I got lucky with one of my scripts and you haven’t! Ha, ha, ha!”

                              So, I have to say that for my money, Bob Saenz’ book is the only one to date that truly delivered on what it marketed itself to be.

                              From your thread posts, Jeff, I can tell that if you undertook to write a book on breaking in, at least you would write it well, unlike those other books (except for Bob’s) I’ve purchased over the years.

                              Write your book on what screenwriters ought to know to break in, Jeff. I’ll buy it.
                              “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Clint Hill View Post
                                The book wasn’t suggested as a “first stopping place.” It’s just one of the better books on what a neophyte screenwriter ought to expect when trying to get a script out in the marketplace. It shatters a lot of screenwriting myths, such as the 25-word logline, and a lot more than that.

                                And all from someone who’s made millions on selling his scripts.
                                I'm not sure how this turned into so much Bob - I guess it's my fault for responding to your sole book recommendation. Mea culpa. But unless I'm wildly, wildly off base, Bob hasn't made millions selling his scripts. If he represents himself as having done so, I would, um, question that.

                                Bob's had a number of movies produced. More than me! But it seems like he's working in the non-guild, low budget independent world. My only point is that I'm not sure how much he knows about the "normal" guild/studio world, since it doesn't look like he's worked in it. My guess is that most people here aren't aiming at the low budget world, and so they should seek out people who have experience where their goals are.

                                I'll buy his book and check it out! Maybe I'm missing something.

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