First ATA agency breaks ranks

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  • #31
    Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

    Originally posted by AnyOtherName View Post
    Well one of the people you mentioned has been going around accusing the Guild leadership of multi-layered malevolent conspiracies, so attributing their statements to "passion- isn't so much armchair psychology as the most generous possible assessment of their behavior.
    So, you've gone from saying "some of the writers" I cited to saying "one of the people." And you don't identify this person. Okay.

    Are the accusations of conspiracies you speak of actually online? Can you provide actual quotes? It's not very hard, I was able to do it.

    Originally posted by AnyOtherName View Post
    And re: diversity: I guess I don't know what you want. It seems like you're saying that until conclusively proven otherwise, you're going to assume this action is hurting minority writers, despite plenty of evidence of the contrary, because you've cherrypicked a few loud people from the Discord group who may or may not be in full possession of their faculties and who, as near as I can tell, would say literally anything to bring this action to an end.
    No. I don't automatically assume that this action is hurting minority writers. However:

    a) The people I cited didn't just speak on behalf of themselves, but on behalf of other writers of color they say they have spoken to. How many writers of color have you spoken to directly/heard from directly regarding the state of staffing?

    b) I have not seen this "plenty of evidence to the contrary" that you speak of with regard to staffing, because you have not provided any.

    c) I have seen no evidence that the people I cited "would say literally anything to bring this action to an end."

    d) You keep insinuating that the people I quoted may have mental issues. Again, you are acting like an armchair psychologist, which strongly smacks of arrogance on your part. Are we supposed to just take your word for it, doctor?

    e) I've noticed that you keep jumping in to comment whenever someone questions the WGA's actions, which strongly suggests that you have a strong bias on your part. Which would frankly, affect the "clarity" of your thinking.


    I am a staunch supporter of the WGA's action. But I also don't believe in blind worship of any leadership. As I've said before, I do think that the only real way to gauge how it is affecting minority writers is through an objective assessment of staffing numbers.
    "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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    • #32
      Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

      Originally posted by AnyOtherName View Post
      (I deleted my response to this, because it's just impossible to discuss this issue or these people without getting into things that have been said and done on private writer boards. Suffice to say, while I think it's important to stay vigilant on the issue of writer room diversity, there is simply no evidence that this is action is hurting minority writers, and MANY POC are angry that they're being used as a talking point by those opposed to this action.)
      Well, I think it's impossible for us to take the word of one person based on what he/she claims to have seen on a private writer board.

      And frankly, considering how you've often acted as a WGA mouthpiece on here, it's hard for me to take your claims about "MANY POC" or many writers in general seriously.
      "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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      • #33
        Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

        This fight is confusing for me as I often get you 2 guys (i assume guys) confused because your handles are so similar and you're both usually giving us good clear advice on Hollywood, but usually in a tough I know better way because I've been there bro! I mean this is a nice way.

        So I don't know who said what now, but it sounds like both of you are just using the little info you have to make your point, so not sure why either of you can get mad at the other. One guy knows some secrets from a message board, another guy follows some people on twitter... I assume one of you is a POC and the other one is a fat Jewish guy like me! But it would help if one of you was an Asian Lesbian with a really sweet rom com spec.

        Either way, don't forget the real enemy. People who use cell phones in coffee lines while ordering because they think they're better than me!

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        • #34
          Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

          Originally posted by Bono View Post
          So I don't know who said what now, but it sounds like both of you are just using the little info you have to make your point, so not sure why either of you can get mad at the other.
          I don't think it's that. I think that one person is making a defiant statement that minority writers are doing great and are not being hurt by the WGA's action; and the other person is saying that you can't make a sweeping generalization like that, because there are some prominent voices (with feedback from other people) saying otherwise. And that the best way to find the truth is through objective data-gathering.

          Looking for commonalities is fine, but I don't believe in false equivalencies.

          Originally posted by Bono View Post
          Either way, don't forget the real enemy. People who use cell phones in coffee lines while ordering because they think they're better than me!
          I think we can all agree on that : )
          "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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          • #35
            Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

            Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
            I am a staunch supporter of the WGA's action.
            Really? Do you know you're only quoting the most vociferous voices against the WGA's action, who are, incidentally, making the same arguments that were made by the ATA?

            I'm not going further with this, because your strategy is to pretend that true things aren't true unless I publicly quote threads from private discussion boards and/or spend the better part of an hour looking for links to articles that, if you'd been following this, you would have already read. Enough.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

              Originally posted by AnyOtherName View Post
              Really? Do you know you're only quoting the most vociferous voices against the WGA's action, who are, incidentally, making the same arguments that were made by the ATA?

              I'm not going further with this, because your strategy is to pretend that true things aren't true unless I publicly quote threads from private discussion boards and/or spend the better part of an hour looking for links to articles that, if you'd been following this, you would have already read. Enough.
              You are weird. I have very much been following this whole matter in prominent news sources and on social media. If you think that the voices I quoted have been so "loud" and "vociferous" against the WGA's action, then you shouldn't have to dig that hard to find evidence as such (or resort to material from a private message board).

              Seriously -- you'd think someone who calls himself/herself a writer wouldn't have such hard time performing a basic online search to back up his/her so-called "evidence."
              "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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              • #37
                Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

                another one. can Goodman & Young get enough other non Big-4's to sign on before the WGA elections?

                https://deadline.com/2019/07/buchwal...ht-1202653011/

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                • #38
                  Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

                  Whether they get more agencies to sign or not, they still have my support. This fight is about fiduciary responsibility.

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                  • #39
                    Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

                    Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
                    another one. can Goodman & Young get enough other non Big-4's to sign on before the WGA elections?

                    https://deadline.com/2019/07/buchwal...ht-1202653011/
                    While it's good that the small agencies are breaking ranks, it doesn't really mean much until mid-tiers like Paradigm, Gersh and APA jump ship. If the WGA nabs those guys, that's when you'll start to see some real changes in how this town operates.

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                    • #40
                      Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

                      Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
                      While it's good that the small agencies are breaking ranks, it doesn't really mean much until mid-tiers like Paradigm, Gersh and APA jump ship. If the WGA nabs those guys, that's when you'll start to see some real changes in how this town operates.
                      ...or if enough established lit agents jump ship and open their own shops.
                      Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

                      -Steve Trautmann
                      3rd & Fairfax: The WGAW Podcast

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                      • #41
                        Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

                        Originally posted by DangoForth View Post
                        Whether they get more agencies to sign or not, they still have my support. This fight is about fiduciary responsibility.
                        i agree. the problem for leadership is that big-time showrunners don't want to sit out development season sans agents either:

                        https://deadline.com/2019/07/top-sho...rt-1202654656/

                        just like 2007 all over again, John Wells, Aaron Sorkin et al will **** us over (though slightly different in that the DGA hasn't forced the writers' hands by cutting a crummy deal before us)

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                        • #42
                          Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

                          Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
                          i agree. the problem for leadership is that big-time showrunners don't want to sit out development season sans agents either:

                          https://deadline.com/2019/07/top-sho...rt-1202654656/

                          just like 2007 all over again, John Wells, Aaron Sorkin et al will **** us over (though slightly different in that the DGA hasn't forced the writers' hands by cutting a crummy deal before us)
                          i'm confused by this. what is it exactly that they (the 300) don't like about the current negotiations, why don't they like it? what do they want? and is it aligned with the benefit of ALL writers, not the top writers?

                          i mean, are they for packaging fees? or shared fees? i'd like to better understand this aspect.
                          "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

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                          • #43
                            Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

                            Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                            i'm confused by this. what is it exactly that they (the 300) don't like about the current negotiations, why don't they like it? what do they want? and is it aligned with the benefit of ALL writers, not the top writers?

                            i mean, are they for packaging fees? or shared fees? i'd like to better understand this aspect.
                            well, at least to hear Mazin's take on it from Scriptnotes, at least some of them feel (or claim to feel) that they were sold one bill of goods by leadership in the run-up to the vote: "Authorize us to fire the agents as a specific means of negotiation leverage, which will lead to . . . something." From everyone I know who was in attendance at the meetings, that's not my understanding of how the case for the vote was presented to rank-and-file but for whatever reason "get back to the bargaining table for . . . something" has apparently become the rallying cry for this faction of dissenters

                            my armchair quarterback read from the sidelines, looking at the names who signed this letter, is that the heaviest hitting showrunners and upper-level writers (and feature writers who may feel like they are caught up in what is mainly a TV fight) just want to go back to the status quo with some token concessions from the Big 4 agencies on packaging fees so they can claim a "win" and start selling shows again.

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                            • #44
                              Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

                              like, Greg Berlanti sold 15 shows last year. if he's going into this development season without an agent [not that i think he would need one to sell another show for the rest of his life but . . . ] maybe he thinks that's going to screw with his hustle in terms of putting together talent packages.

                              of course it costs showrunners at that level absolutely zero to sign their names to a letter like this because they really have nothing at risk -- Shonda and Ryan Murphy are still getting $300m from Netflix whether they have an agent or not.

                              and would any of them commit fully, in a binding way, to ensuring that their own rooms are staffed with writers at every salary level and with a full range of voices if the parties came back to the table tomorrow? ha ha, good luck with that WGA

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                              • #45
                                Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

                                Originally posted by KitchonaSteve View Post
                                ...or if enough established lit agents jump ship and open their own shops.
                                I'm of the opinion that the Big 4 will "kick" all of their literary agents out to form "independent" (ha!) sgencies. And they'll continue packaging everywhere they can until directors and actors rebel, too.

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