Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

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  • #16
    Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

    Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
    Well I haven't read the article but I'll say one thing about AVATAR that I thought was really kind of cool.

    A lot of films, most, are about the hero's transformation. But in this flick, not only is the guy traveling 6 years away from his home, which is inconceivable in itself but OK, has been done before in other sci-fi flicks, he is also choosing to become a whole different species.

    I kept thinking, after I had seen the film: wow, this guy will never again have a beer, never again eat a pizza, watch a movie, talk on the phone, ride a subway, get together with friends in a bar, try to pick up a cute blond at the jukebox, buy a new pair of shoes, listen to his iPod, log on to the internet, drive in a car, feel the clinking of change in his pocket, put on a pair of jeans, step into a hot shower. Etc, etc.

    What he is gaining in return is obviously pretty amazing and compelling, and the case is well made, but still, the complete departure from his old body, environment, world and solar system, struck me as perhaps the most complete and radical transformation any person has ever experienced in a movie.

    And on that level alone, I think AVATAR manages to tell one of the greatest adventures ever. It works on a very primal level I think, and I'm not talking about the tree hugging (that part kind of bugged me).
    Seriously? This movie was one of the most sophomoric pieces of tripe ever produced. I mean I just don't get why it was so successful outside of the visuals (which were ultimately annoying to me because I have glasses and wearing glasses on glasses is a pain in the ass.)

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    • #17
      Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

      Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
      I mean I just don't get why it was so successful outside of the visuals.
      Well, have you *tried* to figure it out?

      That's the premise of the article - there are actual reasons why it was so popular, and why - before it was filmed - it made *two* different Best Unproduced Screenplay lists (Empire Magazine's being one). There are reasons why it's the most popular film of all time (okay - adjusted gross income makes it just in the top dozen or so of all time) - and *not* trying to figure out why is deciding that ignorance is bliss.

      There are *important* screenwriting lessons to be learned from this film, that we can apply to our scripts.

      Since it made a couple of Best Unproduced Screenplays lists, and the scripts were not written in 3D, nor had any CGI - what do *you* think is the reason why Empire Magazine and all of those ticket buyers loved *the story* and how it was told (excluding CGI and 3D)?

      - Bill
      Free Script Tips:
      http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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      • #18
        Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

        Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
        Seriously? This movie was one of the most sophomoric pieces of tripe ever produced. I mean I just don't get why it was so successful outside of the visuals (which were ultimately annoying to me because I have glasses and wearing glasses on glasses is a pain in the ass.)
        Seriously.

        It works in 2D as well.

        I would venture to say that anybody who doesn't get AVATAR doesn't get cinema. Not movies, not films, but CINEMA.

        There are dozens of different kinds of films. Personally I usually tend to favor smaller more talky or cerebral films, but I also love good action and good sci-fi, among other genres.

        But that's not even the point. Because AVATAR is not even about that. It's about the capacity to dream. It's about going to the movies to watch an entire new world unfold before you. It's about being completely taken over by imagination. Yours included. It's about tapping into some of your most primal desires. Some of which are only revealed in dream.

        Honestly, I feel sorry for people who can't see that.

        ETA: I mean, compared to what? Another freaking "contained thriller"? Another comedy about teens trying to get laid? Another romcom that hits all the expected beats at all the expected times? Another action flick with, oh yawn, here's another car chase and here's another explosion? Oh, what about a vigilante flick? Or, I know, something about vampires? Or zombies? Die Hard on a train? An elevator? A 7-11? Iron Man 3, Bond 36, Batman 11, Video Game 43?

        Right. AVATAR is just run of the mill. Just your everyday little trip to the cineplex. Nothing original about it whatsoever.

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        • #19
          Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

          Much better.
          Brown-Balled by the Hollywood Clika

          Latino Heart Project's MEXICAN HEART...ATTACK!

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          • #20
            Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

            Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
            Seriously? This movie was one of the most sophomoric pieces of tripe ever produced. I mean I just don't get why it was so successful outside of the visuals (which were ultimately annoying to me because I have glasses and wearing glasses on glasses is a pain in the ass.)
            Sorry you didn't like it, dirtbottle. For me it was a classic good versus evil fable, superbly conceived and brilliantly executed. Like the vast majority of movies, the story wasn't original, but it still provided me with one of the most enjoyable experiences in a movie theatre for the past few years.

            By the way, I also wear glasses and the 3D specs didn't bother me at all. I'm sure they would have if I didn't like the movie, though.
            TimeStorm & Blurred Vision Book info & blog: https://stormingtime.com//

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            • #21
              Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

              Maybe I got a little carried away in my post up-thread, but it just pisses me off. I totally respect people not liking AVATAR, but not getting it? That's another matter.

              Anyway, it's not as if Cameron needs me to defend him. Not a single one of us here will ever experience the amount of success that is gathered in just the small toe of his left foot. And that, unfortunately, is a guarantee.

              We might have big dreams, but his are are far, far bigger, with the added advantage that he actually has the ability to make them come true

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              • #22
                Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                Maybe I got a little carried away in my post up-thread, but it just pisses me off. I totally respect people not liking AVATAR, but not getting it? That's another matter.

                Anyway, it's not as if Cameron needs me to defend him. Not a single one of us here will ever experience the amount of success that is gathered in just the small toe of his left foot. And that, unfortunately, is a guarantee.

                We might have big dreams, but his are are far, far bigger, with the added advantage that he actually has the ability to make them come true
                Dude, seriously? Avatar couldn't wipe Terminator's nor the Matrix' ass in terms of originality for example. There was not a single thing in that movie that made me go, "Holy crap! Thanks Jim, now I'm going to have to ponder that for the rest of my life!" Not a single aspect that I said, "This could really be happening" as with the Matrix or the paradoxes of time in Terminator.

                I grant you Cameron has done some amazing things. Terminator is pound for pound one of the most brilliant ideas ever put on celluloid but Avatar is not even remotely close to it and the Matrix is so far and away a superior concept that Avatar shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath.

                Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                Well, have you *tried* to figure it out?

                That's the premise of the article - there are actual reasons why it was so popular, and why - before it was filmed - it made *two* different Best Unproduced Screenplay lists (Empire Magazine's being one). There are reasons why it's the most popular film of all time (okay - adjusted gross income makes it just in the top dozen or so of all time) - and *not* trying to figure out why is deciding that ignorance is bliss.

                There are *important* screenwriting lessons to be learned from this film, that we can apply to our scripts.

                Since it made a couple of Best Unproduced Screenplays lists, and the scripts were not written in 3D, nor had any CGI - what do *you* think is the reason why Empire Magazine and all of those ticket buyers loved *the story* and how it was told (excluding CGI and 3D)?

                What's to figure out? There's nothing that left even the slightest question in my mind about how it would affect life as we know it. What was there not to understand in that film? There's no paradox, there's no infinite regression of time because he became a sea monkey. There's nothing new in destroying a pristine place for it's mineral resources, there's nothing new in imperialism. Hell, there's nothing new in this screenplay according to anyone who has read or seen Ferngully!

                As for how it made any sort of best screenplay list that's one of the best cases of emperor's new clothes perhaps. Although I've not read the screenplay so maybe it was better than what wound up in theaters.

                This is a pointless argument because the film was just very run of the mill aside from the effects and build up to it. If it was Roger Corman in 2-D instead of JC in 3-D I promise it would've been straight to DVD.

                To try and shine it up with some sort of deeper meaning is like putting windex on a turd.

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                • #23
                  Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                  Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                  Dude, seriously? Avatar couldn't wipe Terminator's nor the Matrix' ass in terms of originality for example. There was not a single thing in that movie that made me go, "Holy crap! Thanks Jim, now I'm going to have to ponder that for the rest of my life!" Not a single aspect that I said, "This could really be happening" as with the Matrix or the paradoxes of time in Terminator.

                  I grant you Cameron has done some amazing things. Terminator is pound for pound one of the most brilliant ideas ever put on celluloid but Avatar is not even remotely close to it and the Matrix is so far and away a superior concept that Avatar shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath.




                  What's to figure out? There's nothing that left even the slightest question in my mind about how it would affect life as we know it. What was there not to understand in that film? There's no paradox, there's no infinite regression of time because he became a sea monkey. There's nothing new in destroying a pristine place for it's mineral resources, there's nothing new in imperialism. Hell, there's nothing new in this screenplay according to anyone who has read or seen Ferngully!

                  As for how it made any sort of best screenplay list that's one of the best cases of emperor's new clothes perhaps. Although I've not read the screenplay so maybe it was better than what wound up in theaters.

                  This is a pointless argument because the film was just very run of the mill aside from the effects and build up to it. If it was Roger Corman in 2-D instead of JC in 3-D I promise it would've been straight to DVD.

                  To try and shine it up with some sort of deeper meaning is like putting windex on a turd.

                  That second part wasn't my post, hotshot, but Bill's.

                  Anyway, for what it's worth, I bet Cameron has a longer career than the W Bros. But ff course I loved MATRIX. It's one of my all time faves. There are many reasons to love it. And there are many reasons to love AVATAR. Apples and oranges.

                  And nobody's saying AVATAR is deep. It's a simple, universal story that works on deeper levels. While wowing you out of your fuccking seat.

                  But maybe you've never dreamed of flying. Or of other worlds. Or of being someone else. Or of completely reinventing yourself.

                  To me that film taps into all of that. It's not intellectual, it's visceral.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                    Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                    That second part wasn't my post, hotshot, but Bill's.

                    Anyway, for what it's worth, I bet Cameron has a longer career than the W Bros. But ff course I loved MATRIX. It's one of my all time faves. There are many reasons to love it. And there are many reasons to love AVATAR. Apples and oranges.

                    And nobody's saying AVATAR is deep. It's a simple, universal story that works on deeper levels. While wowing you out of your fuccking seat.

                    But maybe you've never dreamed of flying. Or of other worlds. Or of being someone else. Or of completely reinventing yourself.

                    To me that film taps into all of that. It's not intellectual, it's visceral.
                    The misquote was unintentional sorry about that. As for dreaming of flying and so on we all have, but this film isn't the first to give us that. I mean you could pick the "Never Ending Story" if you want a film about someone being able to fly on a big scary creature. Or "Top Gun" if you want the out and out exhiliration of racing through the heavens on the edge of your seat. If you want to reinvent yourself pick "Back to the Future" or "Tootsie." If you want natives in combat watch "Last of the Mohicans." Films have been showing all of these things FOR YEARS.

                    It wasn't visceral to me because it had all been done before. Give me something new, give me something so amazing that I forget I'm watching a movie. There was never a point in this film where I got so caught up in the world that I forgot how long, or how mundane it was, or the fact that I was sitting in a theater with a bunch of mouthbreathers and fussy babies.

                    Sorry, but the only thing that made this an event film was JC hype and 3-D.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                      Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post

                      Sorry, but the only thing that made this an event film was JC hype and 3-D.
                      Do you believe the JC hype and the 3d hype was all it took to make it the top grossing film of all time? Was that the reason many people went to see it time and time again? Or that a significant amount of people felt so strongly about the movie and it's message to flock to the internet, conventions - even therapists?

                      Seems to me that only happens if it's an event movie that resonates with a huge majority of the movie audience.

                      I get that you don't like the film, but to lash out t it and ignore it is a bit like continuing to believe that the world is flat.

                      You don't have to like a film to learn from it - and there is a lot to learn from Avatar (and none if it has anything to do with JC or 3D).
                      If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
                      Dave Barry

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                      • #26
                        Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                        Originally posted by Centurio View Post
                        Do you believe the JC hype and the 3d hype was all it took to make it the top grossing film of all time? Was that the reason many people went to see it time and time again? Or that a significant amount of people felt so strongly about the movie and it's message to flock to the internet, conventions - even therapists?

                        Seems to me that only happens if it's an event movie that resonates with a huge majority of the movie audience.

                        I get that you don't like the film, but to lash out t it and ignore it is a bit like continuing to believe that the world is flat.

                        You don't have to like a film to learn from it - and there is a lot to learn from Avatar (and none if it has anything to do with JC or 3D).
                        I disagree wholeheartedly. Sorry. There are plenty of films I don't like that I can at least respect. I respect this for the visual accomplishment but the story is no great shakes even though it's really just an extreme video game trailer. You can like it all you want however, I'm not stopping you.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                          Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                          I disagree wholeheartedly. Sorry. There are plenty of films I don't like that I can at least respect. I respect this for the visual accomplishment but the story is no great shakes even though it's really just an extreme video game trailer. You can like it all you want however, I'm not stopping you.
                          The point isn't whether you like or dislike it - the point is whether you're open to learning a valuable lesson from it. It would be a shame for a writer to dismiss a cultural phenomenon out of hand, because of a personal bias.

                          And it is such and easy and important lesson. Moviegoers like escapism. They love a simple story of good vs. evil and a basic love story. It doesn't have to be grand and 3D - it has to be visceral and touch their emotions.

                          There is nothing new about Avatar. It's the same story that's been told for thousands of years - and it's what people want.
                          If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
                          Dave Barry

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                          • #28
                            Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                            Originally posted by Centurio View Post
                            The point isn't whether you like or dislike it - the point is whether you're open to learning a valuable lesson from it. It would be a shame for a writer to dismiss a cultural phenomenon out of hand, because of a personal bias.

                            And it is such and easy and important lesson. Moviegoers like escapism. They love a simple story of good vs. evil and a basic love story. It doesn't have to be grand and 3D - it has to be visceral and touch their emotions.

                            There is nothing new about Avatar. It's the same story that's been told for thousands of years - and it's what people want.
                            I'll agree it's the same story that's for sure. And there's lots of escapism out there. Unfortunately, this wasn't particularly interesting escapism. IF there's a lesson out there for all you kids it's that you can be successful even with a piece of crap.

                            The only reason it was so successful imo is because it was the same story that debuted a new technology (relatively new because that 3-D was at disney in the "A Bug's life" ride already) and was hyped to the Nth degree.

                            The only teachable lesson there I can see is that if enough people agree the emperor is wearing clothes no one will point out he's naked.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                              Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                              IF there's a lesson out there for all you kids it's that you can be successful even with a piece of crap.
                              okay fine. can we go back to discussing bill's wonderful article now?

                              bill made some really good points in his article about connections within every scene in avatar, like bits of dna that contribute to making a strong thematic whole. ie, every being within the film is connected within a group; and that group is suffering in some significant, and insignificant way, from lack of communication with another group. thoughts anyone?
                              Last edited by asjah8; 09-20-2010, 07:40 PM. Reason: oopsy
                              life happens
                              despite a few cracked pots-
                              and random sunlight

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                              • #30
                                Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                                Originally posted by asjah8 View Post
                                okay fine. can we go back to discussing bill's wonderful article now?

                                bill made some really good points in his article about connections within every scene in avatar, like bits of dna that contribute to making a strong thematic whole. ie, every being within the film is connected within a group; and that group is suffering in some significant, and insignificant way, from lack of communication with another group. thoughts anyone?
                                I'm sure Bill's article was masterfully written but I did not see anything especially important either overtly or subtextually in this film. Sorry.

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