Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

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  • #31
    Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

    i'm an optimistic person and it's kinda fun to spar... so i'll continue to bite here.

    this may sound peculiar in this day and age, but i put my faith, interest and endless fascination… in people.

    no matter who people are, where they are, whatever they are doing… they are still just people. visceral beings with basic immutable desires, wants, needs, and goals. it's been that way for about 10 million years... caveman needed fire, et voila! he was roasting a toothy dinosaur over a rustic barbeque pit. then, he discovered spices and “hmmm, those tasted good when he combined them”, et voila!, we had the birth of cuisine. okay, i sorta skipped a few million years but you get the point...

    fairytales aren’t deep on the surface, but what makes them deep is our human desire to understand and make sense of things around us. we dig into them to find explanations. what they convey makes them relevant. but, that relevance is also generally dependent on the timeliness of the message. a fairytale is relevant in the age of a child, but an adult may find it simplistic, etc. however, age isn't just determined by focusing on one individual, but rather an entire community, a race, a species, etc.

    for all the information we’ve learned and absorbed since the caveman-dude, i believe we’re in a human recession of sentient understanding. we can pull up the most inconsequential, yet scientifically staggering information with a click of a button – but, we’ve forgotten how to relate to our fellow man in a significant and tangible way.

    so was avatar particularly ground-breaking in its concept of save the environment and message that we should learn to connect with people? 20 years ago, i would have said no... we already trod that path and it was well worn.

    but today?

    i think we’ve made this fairytale highly relevant due to the information-accessible world we have created and the concurrent retreat from human contact that we’ve been thriving in.

    so, the article pointed out the connections within scenes, leads to a fully developed theme about connections among groups and what is fragile among them. for myself, i think that's relevant and timely.

    life happens
    despite a few cracked pots-
    and random sunlight

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    • #32
      Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

      Originally posted by asjah8 View Post

      so, the article pointed out the connections within scenes, leads to a fully developed theme about connections among groups and what is fragile among them. for myself, i think that's relevant and timely.

      Relevant and timely? Perhaps. Well done? Sorry. No sale.

      This is just an average movie with great special effects and a hackneyed (and quite potentially cribbed in whole) storyline.

      Did you honestly get tears in your eyes at any point? I can name a number of movies at which I did and this was most certainly not one of them.

      This has the gravitas of Jurassic Park (only without the backing of a well-written novel) basically and to try and paint it as anything otherwise is nonsense.

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      • #33
        Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

        Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
        Relevant and timely? Perhaps. Well done? Sorry. No sale.

        This is just an average movie with great special effects and a hackneyed (and quite potentially cribbed in whole) storyline.

        Did you honestly get tears in your eyes at any point? I can name a number of movies at which I did and this was most certainly not one of them.

        This has the gravitas of Jurassic Park (only without the backing of a well-written novel) basically and to try and paint it as anything otherwise is nonsense.
        I was moved while watching Avatar. For me, it rose above all the shortcomings you've listed through this thread and is, in my opinion, a beautiful and great movie.

        It's OK not to like it - I'm sure there are people who dislike some of your favorites - but your opinion doesn't make it a bad movie (in the same way the box office doesn't mean it's a good movie). It just makes it a movie you don't like.
        TimeStorm & Blurred Vision Book info & blog: https://stormingtime.com//

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        • #34
          Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

          Originally posted by Centurio View Post
          The point isn't whether you like or dislike it - the point is whether you're open to learning a valuable lesson from it. It would be a shame for a writer to dismiss a cultural phenomenon out of hand, because of a personal bias.
          This.

          And two *different* Best Unproduced Screenplay lists - I don't think Cameron did a major rewrite on his own script before filming it, so I'm guessing it's the same script. Both lists (Empire is the UK's version of PREMIERE) saw things *in the story* that db did not see.

          The audience - our boss - also seemed to see these things. Now, there are plenty of films out there with nice visuals... but *THIS* is the one that touched them like the others did not. So, I think it is important to figure out *why* - and apply that knowledge to my own screenplays.

          The article is what I saw when I opened my eyes - but others may see important things I may have missed.

          Either the world is a bunch of crazy coincidences and nothing can be learned, or there are reasons and every reaction is from an equal and opposite action and we can learn and improve and make ourselves better through knowledge. I'm in camp 2 - and try to learn and improve myself.

          - Bill
          Free Script Tips:
          http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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          • #35
            Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

            Originally posted by hscope View Post
            I was moved while watching Avatar. For me, it rose above all the shortcomings you've listed through this thread and is, in my opinion, a beautiful and great movie.

            It's OK not to like it - I'm sure there are people who dislike some of your favorites - but your opinion doesn't make it a bad movie (in the same way the box office doesn't mean it's a good movie). It just makes it a movie you don't like.
            And your opinion doesn't make it a good movie either. So we'll just have to agree that were it as great as everyone says, I'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't. As it is, I feel completely content in my stand.

            To give you an example of my point I'll just point to what the critics by and large said by giving this intro to David Edelstein's review in New York Magazine, "The narrative would be ho-hum without the spectacle. But what spectacle!"

            Or this from the Washington Post review, "Is the dialogue corny? You bet. Does the movie go kerblooey in its final moments, during a ferocious, explosive firefight that will leave your eyeballs bleeding? Uh-huh. But Cameron has delivered what he promised with "Avatar": an ambitious, fully immersive cinematic experience. "

            I had a tough time finding a review that found the story to be exceptional in any way shape or form. But as a visual treat. You bet.

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            • #36
              Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

              Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
              This.

              And two *different* Best Unproduced Screenplay lists - I don't think Cameron did a major rewrite on his own script before filming it, so I'm guessing it's the same script. Both lists (Empire is the UK's version of PREMIERE) saw things *in the story* that db did not see.

              The audience - our boss - also seemed to see these things. Now, there are plenty of films out there with nice visuals... but *THIS* is the one that touched them like the others did not. So, I think it is important to figure out *why* - and apply that knowledge to my own screenplays.

              The article is what I saw when I opened my eyes - but others may see important things I may have missed.

              Either the world is a bunch of crazy coincidences and nothing can be learned, or there are reasons and every reaction is from an equal and opposite action and we can learn and improve and make ourselves better through knowledge. I'm in camp 2 - and try to learn and improve myself.

              - Bill
              Bill, never before in the annals of history have the visuals of a film been so hyped prior to its release I believe. If you like the film good for you. But to say that the script is remarkable in any sense (other than it's uncanny similarity to Ferngully) makes me question your ability to recognize a quality script.

              Read this script and then read Chinatown or Butch and Sundance or Pulp Fiction and you'll see how sorely lacking it is.

              Of course if your baseline is Battlefield Earth perhaps, why then you might have something there.

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              • #37
                Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                So what if it's not original ???????? I mean how many thousands of articles have there been about Star Wars being just about one of the most unoriginal, basic stories ever told except that --oh yeah, it was set in a galaxy far far away, with robots and furry creatures and cool spaceships?

                The fact that the story of AVATAR has been done before under different circumstances is not the point. Most stories have. Some will way ALL. The same themes keep repeating themselves over and over and over again.

                The point is what you do with universal themes and stories. And Cameron created a fascinating world and a kick-ass adventure. And again, I want to stress the adventure part. Because what Jake experiences, that is pretty damn huge.

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                • #38
                  Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                  Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                  And your opinion doesn't make it a good movie either. So we'll just have to agree that were it as great as everyone says, I'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't. As it is, I feel completely content in my stand.

                  To give you an example of my point I'll just point to what the critics by and large said by giving this intro to David Edelstein's review in New York Magazine, "The narrative would be ho-hum without the spectacle. But what spectacle!"

                  Or this from the Washington Post review, "Is the dialogue corny? You bet. Does the movie go kerblooey in its final moments, during a ferocious, explosive firefight that will leave your eyeballs bleeding? Uh-huh. But Cameron has delivered what he promised with "Avatar": an ambitious, fully immersive cinematic experience. "

                  I had a tough time finding a review that found the story to be exceptional in any way shape or form. But as a visual treat. You bet.
                  I think you would have an impossible rather than tough time finding a review declaring the story exceptional. It's a very familiar story, in the same way as nearly every movie has a variation of a story we've all seen before.

                  I was totally immersed in every aspect of Avatar. It's a masterpiece as far as I'm concerned and it's very easy for me to see why it was so successful.
                  TimeStorm & Blurred Vision Book info & blog: https://stormingtime.com//

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                    Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                    So what if it's not original ???????? I mean how many thousands of articles have there been about Star Wars being just about one of the most unoriginal, basic stories ever told except that --oh yeah, it was set in a galaxy far far away, with robots and furry creatures and cool spaceships?

                    The fact that the story of AVATAR has been done before under different circumstances is not the point. Most stories have. Some will way ALL. The same themes keep repeating themselves over and over and over again.

                    The point is what you do with universal themes and stories. And Cameron created a fascinating world and a kick-ass adventure. And again, I want to stress the adventure part. Because what Jake experiences, that is pretty damn huge.
                    Lot's of scripts are derivative. No problem with that. But when they're derivative and crappy? Pass.

                    Don't get me wrong. The movie is visually stimulating - not arguing that. Story is a poor telling of a very common tale. Once all the pretty lights and beepy noises fade away you're left with nothing of note.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                      Originally posted by hscope View Post
                      I think you would have an impossible rather than tough time finding a review declaring the story exceptional. It's a very familiar story, in the same way as nearly every movie has a variation of a story we've all seen before.

                      I was totally immersed in every aspect of Avatar. It's a masterpiece as far as I'm concerned and it's very easy for me to see why it was so successful.
                      Let me be more clear, the script is not only unoriginal - it's just plain bad. That's what I'm saying. I don't have a problem with the lack of originality (I mean really what new rom-com has been written since Shakespeare right?), but I do have a problem with poor quality.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                        Originally posted by dirtbottle
                        Totally Immersed? Really? If you liked that you should check out the newest Halo. It's the same visuals and the story is a little better. Plus it's interactive.
                        I'm not a fan of interactive immersion, thanks.

                        Besides, how could anything be an improvement on the perfection of Avatar?
                        TimeStorm & Blurred Vision Book info & blog: https://stormingtime.com//

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                          Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                          Let me be more clear, the script is not only unoriginal - it's just plain bad. That's what I'm saying. I don't have a problem with the lack of originality (I mean really what new rom-com has been written since Shakespeare right?), but I do have a problem with poor quality.
                          You don't need to be more clear; you've made your point in every post. You have a problem with what you perceive as poor quality. I get that.
                          TimeStorm & Blurred Vision Book info & blog: https://stormingtime.com//

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                          • #43
                            Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                            Originally posted by hscope View Post
                            I'm not a fan of interactive immersion, thanks.

                            Besides, how could anything be an improvement on the perfection of Avatar?
                            Methinks the lady doth protest too much!

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                            • #44
                              Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                              Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                              Methinks the lady doth protest too much!
                              TimeStorm & Blurred Vision Book info & blog: https://stormingtime.com//

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                                Originally posted by Centurio View Post
                                Nobody on this board likes to argue.

                                See - I told you Bill.
                                If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
                                Dave Barry

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