Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

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  • #46
    Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

    Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
    Story is a poor telling of a very common tale.
    You are wrong.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

      Originally posted by CrackDown View Post
      You are wrong.
      Actually I'm not. But since this is all opinion we'll have to just disagree.

      The fact that there are actually screenwriters on this board who think that the script or story are the strength of this film clears up why we have so many shitty movies being made today.

      Seriously, you guys are really shaking my faith that screenwriters are the answer not the problem.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

        Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
        The fact that there are actually screenwriters on this board who think that the script or story are the strength of this film clears up why we have so many shitty movies being made today.
        oh my lord, this reminds me of a pesky dry cleaner sheet (bounce?) that sticks to everything but is only effective during the first load of wash. if you don't like the film, fine, please elucidate the content you find fault with so us noobs (meaning me) can learn something from it; ie, the throughline, a plot point, a reversal... etc. random sweeping statements about idiots and shitty movies doesn't mean d-ck. and yes ya'll, i'm in a pissy mood; ss doesn't always get to corner the drama market.

        dude bottle, get to the point, please.
        life happens
        despite a few cracked pots-
        and random sunlight

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

          dirtbottle has flogged his or her point to death: he or she doesn't like it, therefore Avatar must be crap. It's difficult to argue with internal logic on that scale.

          When I told Jim Cameron yesterday, he cried over his failure. I said, never mind, there's always the possibility you might make a good film and achieve some success in the business one day.
          TimeStorm & Blurred Vision Book info & blog: https://stormingtime.com//

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

            Originally posted by hscope View Post
            dirtbottle has flogged his or her point to death: he or she doesn't like it, therefore Avatar must be crap. It's difficult to argue with internal logic on that scale.
            Sometimes the only way to get through to a drunk, is to wait until they're sober.

            @TerranceMulloy

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

              Originally posted by asjah8 View Post
              if you don't like the film, fine, please elucidate the content you find fault with so us noobs (meaning me) can learn something from it; ie, the throughline, a plot point, a reversal... etc. random sweeping statements about idiots and shitty movies doesn't mean d-ck. and yes ya'll, i'm in a pissy mood; ss doesn't always get to corner the drama market.

              dude bottle, get to the point, please.
              The point, self-proclaimed noob, is that if you're going to write a screenplay and you don't want people to think it sucks avoid the following things that Avatar did in spades:

              1. Hackneyed plot (already adressed ad nauseum) - yes you can get away with it if you bring some new twist or at least make it interesting in some way.

              2. Underdeveloped characters about whom you feel nothing - so he's a cripple, big deal. Make something he does or says compelling so I care that his being crippled coincides with his emotional state and make it less than bang-you-over-the-head obvious so when he gains the ability to run again and becomes this lovely, reformed love-child of the nabu or whatever I'm not groaning in my seat at the cheesiness.

              3. Pat Dialogue - 'nuff said.

              4. Comic bookish villainy - if you want camp, buy a tent.

              I could go on but it won't matter because those who love it will simply say that my opinion on all of this is wrong again.

              Originally posted by hscope View Post
              dirtbottle has flogged his or her point to death: he or she doesn't like it, therefore Avatar must be crap. It's difficult to argue with internal logic on that scale.

              When I told Jim Cameron yesterday, he cried over his failure. I said, never mind, there's always the possibility you might make a good film and achieve some success in the business one day.
              I'm sure you consoled him by ever so briefly removing your lips from his ass and kissing away his tears with a tenderness only the true sycophant can muster.

              Give me a break...

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                I'm sure you consoled him by ever so briefly removing your lips from his ass and kissing away his tears with a tenderness only the true sycophant can muster.
                Gee, I didn't realize anyone was watching!

                Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                I could go on but it won't matter because those who love it will simply say that my opinion on all of this is wrong again.
                So, it's your opinion and not fact. Who knew!
                TimeStorm & Blurred Vision Book info & blog: https://stormingtime.com//

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                  Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                  Bill, never before in the annals of history have the visuals of a film been so hyped prior to its release I believe. If you like the film good for you. But to say that the script is remarkable in any sense (other than it's uncanny similarity to Ferngully) makes me question your ability to recognize a quality script.
                  See, the problem is that you want it to be *my* problem or the problem of the two different lists of Best Screenplays or the problem of all of those people who bought tickets and did love the story and were emotionally moved by the story. It's everybody's problem but yours.

                  The first time AVATAR made one of these Best Unproduced Screenplay lists was in 2000, second list was in 2005. No 3D, no CGI involved, yet.

                  You need to look with better eyes - you are missing it.

                  BUT HERE'S THE THING:

                  Even if you hated it, even if you think it is a steaming pile of dog feces... the people who buy tickets, the people who are our boss, the people who pay us (it trickles down... or up... or whatever direction), LOVED this movie. So it makes sense, purely from a detatched business perspective, to figure out *why* so that we can apply the reasons why they loved it to our screenplays. To *understand* why it touched so many people (even if it did not touch you). Because whatever that lightning is, we can grab a piece of it and use it in our (much better, less derivative, no trite dialogue, etc) screenplays. See, whether *you* liked it or not does not matter at all. The people who pay us liked it a lot. That means there is something to be learned from this film. Something that we do not know (but Jim Cameron does). Something that is part of the screenplay, because it made two different lists. Something about that story and the way it was told made people name their damned kids after characters - what is it that created such a strong reaction, such a strong connection to *this* movie and not the other movies that have come out over the past ten years? It has been ten years since a film was a phenomena like this - all of the other films over the past ten years *did not* get this reaction from the audience.

                  So - WHY did AVATAR get this strong reaction and all of the other films released over the past decade did not?

                  Explain it to me, db...

                  - Bill
                  Last edited by wcmartell; 09-23-2010, 12:26 AM.
                  Free Script Tips:
                  http://www.scriptsecrets.net

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                    Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                    The point, self-proclaimed noob, is that if you're going to write a screenplay and you don't want people to think it sucks avoid the following things that Avatar did in spades:

                    1. Hackneyed plot (already adressed ad nauseum) - yes you can get away with it if you bring some new twist or at least make it interesting in some way.

                    2. Underdeveloped characters about whom you feel nothing - so he's a cripple, big deal. Make something he does or says compelling so I care that his being crippled coincides with his emotional state and make it less than bang-you-over-the-head obvious so when he gains the ability to run again and becomes this lovely, reformed love-child of the nabu or whatever I'm not groaning in my seat at the cheesiness.

                    3. Pat Dialogue - 'nuff said.

                    4. Comic bookish villainy - if you want camp, buy a tent.

                    I could go on but it won't matter because those who love it will simply say that my opinion on all of this is wrong again.



                    I'm sure you consoled him by ever so briefly removing your lips from his ass and kissing away his tears with a tenderness only the true sycophant can muster.

                    Give me a break...
                    puh'lease... mister, this is a multi-billion dollar olympics and these pros are athletes. the "underdeveloped characters" you're talking about: stock characters, and they are a literary tool. a technique that can be used for the greatest audience identification, when... guess what? yep, a story is so farfetched (like blue people on a faraway planet...) that the writer stands a chance of the entire story structure failing due to lack of believability.

                    in other words, they weren't thrown in by mistake.
                    Last edited by asjah8; 09-23-2010, 06:01 AM.
                    life happens
                    despite a few cracked pots-
                    and random sunlight

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                      Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
                      the people who pay us (it trickles down... or up... or whatever direction), LOVED this movie.
                      So - WHY did AVATAR get this strong reaction and all of the other films released over the past decade did not?

                      Explain it to me, db...

                      - Bill
                      As I say, maybe we're reading different reviews, but universally the movie is beloved because of the way it LOOKED. The EXPERIENCE was new and moving because of the radically impressive 3-D effects. There were people who became suicidal (literally not making this up) because they couldn't live in that BEAUTIFUL world - but it has nothing to do with the screenplay or the story. It's pretty much always about how it looked.

                      Now maybe that's what a movie is supposed to do since it's "moving pictures" after all, or maybe the script changed since these two best unproduced lists you keep going on about, but I've never really heard anyone saying, "God I just LOVED the story! It moved me so much. You could tell it to me before bedtime and I'd just weep and cheer all over again."

                      If you need more proof look at the nominations Avatar received - not one for performance, also conspicuously absent is best screenplay. However, what did it pick up? 7 technical nominations plus best picture and director.

                      Look it's not like my stance here is outrageous. The critics overwhelmingly agree with me about the script/story. Even Kenneth Turan of the Los Angeles Times felt the film has "powerful" visual accomplishments but "flat dialogue" and "obvious characterization".

                      I don't know what the argument is here. The movie was a visual spectacle but that's clearly where the argument ends.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                        Originally posted by asjah8 View Post
                        puh'lease... mister, this is a multi-billion dollar olympics and these pros are athletes. the "underdeveloped characters" you're talking about: stock characters, and they are a literary tool. a technique that can be used for the greatest audience identification, when... guess what? yep, a story is so farfetched (like blue people on a faraway planet...) that the writer stands a chance of the entire story structure failing due to lack of believability.

                        in other words, they weren't thrown in by mistake.
                        So your contention is that flat, obvious characters were a choice?

                        I hope more screenwriters are choosing that because if I'm lucky it will make it easier for my work stand out.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                          oh good grief. i never said it was a perfect story in and of itself, and you're missing the point by picking apart the conversations. what i am saying is i believe it was perfectly designed to sell the visual extravaganza. and, clearly it made brownie points with the general public so they made the right choices.
                          life happens
                          despite a few cracked pots-
                          and random sunlight

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                            Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                            "God I just LOVED the story! It moved me so much. You could tell it to me before bedtime and I'd just weep and cheer all over again".
                            Except every post on this thread that has said that, you have ridiculed.

                            So - closed mind.

                            Oh, and you are focusing on the dialogue, but screenwriting is all about telling a story *visualually*, and as those WGA adverts used to say - somebody wrote that.

                            Closed mind again.

                            While you were cherry picking critic's quotes, did you notice whether they liked the film or not? What was it's rating on RT? How does that rating compare to other films?

                            Again - closed mind.

                            When you close it, no knowledge can enter it.

                            Good luck.

                            - Bill
                            Free Script Tips:
                            http://www.scriptsecrets.net

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                              Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
                              Except every post on this thread that has said that, you have ridiculed.

                              So - closed mind.

                              Oh, and you are focusing on the dialogue, but screenwriting is all about telling a story *visualually*, and as those WGA adverts used to say - somebody wrote that.

                              Closed mind again.

                              While you were cherry picking critic's quotes, did you notice whether they liked the film or not? What was it's rating on RT? How does that rating compare to other films?

                              Again - closed mind.

                              When you close it, no knowledge can enter it.

                              Good luck.

                              - Bill
                              Why are you ignoring the fact that generally positive reviews (as I've pointed out) rave about the visuals while discounting the rather lackluster story? I didn't have to cherry pick by the way. You have to dig a lot harder to find a review that says the story and script were magnificent which is your contention.

                              But fine, I'll agree with you Bill if that's what it takes to make me seem open minded. The script is wonderful. A subtextual masterpiece to be studied for the ages. If only writers could be as hyperaware to all the subtleties going on in this screenplay cinema would become virtual ambrosia for viewers to drink of until drunk with mind-altering pleasure until they would stumble from their seats only to weave up to the counter for another ticket and another slug of the sweet nectar that is Avatar-inspired storytelling.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Avatar article - who wants to fight me?

                                Originally posted by wcmartell View Post

                                I have worked with an actor who had his assistant read the script to him...

                                - Bill
                                Can you name this lazy c*nt? Or was the actor in fact blind or illiterate?

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