James Franco sued

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  • #16
    Re: James Franco sued

    Since this isn't a court of law or twitter -- I just want to say I always disliked Franco and found him creepy as hell. He's been accused of other things too, hasn't he?

    I do look at things logically. And I always worry about the innocent person being railroaded by group think. However, most of these stories it's clear to me the women are telling the truth. There is little to gain and everything to lose.

    I can argue some men should be forgiven (second chance) and others shot in the dick -- but that's personal opinion and case by case.

    I would like to focus on the victims first. With everything we tend to focus on the bad guys and not the victims.

    So let's just focus on the fact that he's teaching a sex scene class? WTF is that? And none of the indie films got released. Even if it was all on the up and up -- it's still creepy and he's a POS for doing it right? It's a casting couch in broad daylight masked as a class.

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    • #17
      Re: James Franco sued

      Originally posted by Bono View Post
      Since this isn't a court of law or twitter -- I just want to say I always disliked Franco and found him creepy as hell. He's been accused of other things too, hasn't he?

      I do look at things logically. And I always worry about the innocent person being railroaded by group think. However, most of these stories it's clear to me the women are telling the truth. There is little to gain and everything to lose.

      I can argue some men should be forgiven (second chance) and others shot in the dick -- but that's personal opinion and case by case.

      I would like to focus on the victims first. With everything we tend to focus on the bad guys and not the victims.

      So let's just focus on the fact that he's teaching a sex scene class? WTF is that? And none of the indie films got released. Even if it was all on the up and up -- it's still creepy and he's a POS for doing it right? It's a casting couch in broad daylight masked as a class.
      - In the case of Rose, Doe was flat out lying and it was pretty much obvious to everyone in the room, including the judge and jury. Doe had money to gain, and Rose had everything to lose.

      - The truth often comes out. Victims will be heard. Especially in this day and age. Tell the truth, and the justice system will (more often than not) prevail.

      - Strange, but as you mentioned, I do believe he has been accused of things before, and that's what I meant when I said Franco has demonstrated that he's an experimental kind of artist, and often pushes boundaries. James Franco teaching a "how to have sex on camera" class essentially, and now he's being sued (for money) for sexual exploitation. Well, it's an interesting case.

      I look forward to the facts being presented in an unbiased court of law.

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      • #18
        Re: James Franco sued

        Not an expert on this case, but what I recall and what I read about it tonight makes me think you're not even considering the other side.

        https://theundefeated.com/whhw/derri...n-los-angeles/

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        • #19
          Re: James Franco sued

          Originally posted by Bono View Post
          Not an expert on this case, but what I recall and what I read about it tonight makes me think you're not even considering the other side.

          https://theundefeated.com/whhw/derri...n-los-angeles/
          Read that full article in its entirety. I worked for the attorney general's office for 2 years and am completely neutral on these issues, Bono. There's no reason for me to defend anyone. Doe lied about what happened, tried to come up with a scheme to collect money, and the jury saw right through her. It is important to only consider the facts, and not feelings.

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          • #20
            Re: James Franco sued

            This town is so full of pigs.

            Most of these cases I first heard of 20 years ago... *what the fukk bruh?* face.
            Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

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            • #21
              Re: James Franco sued

              Can we go back to talking about writing, Vango? It was a lot more fun and productive.

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              • #22
                Re: James Franco sued

                Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                They're not "these people" they're women who are in an unequal power position.
                I'm not going to get too deep into this, but "women who are in an unequal power position" is a bit of a stretch. They are adults who signed up for a class, they're not teens who are legally obligated to go to school, or people getting harassed by their boss at a job they need to survive.

                You know what I would do if someone asked me to do something at a adult education class that I wasn't comfortable with? I wouldn't do it. I would stop going to the class and either eat the money or sue in small claims court... or go to the police if it was some kind of assault. The one thing I would NOT do is continue to get harassed.

                Yea it sucks, and they might even deserve some kind of remedy, but it's not because of some power position. They just ran into someone who's an *******.

                All that to say, we should stop teaching people they don't have power when they do. Teach people what their power is and how to use it. I know some people just don't get taught that, and they get abused, but seeing narratives like "adults in a voluntary class didn't have power to say no/stop" is ultimately counter-productive in my opinion.

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                • #23
                  Re: James Franco sued

                  Originally posted by megablahblah View Post
                  You know what I would do if someone asked me to do something at a adult education class that I wasn't comfortable with? I wouldn't do it. I would stop going to the class and either eat the money or sue in small claims court... or go to the police if it was some kind of assault.
                  Not everyone is you, megablah. Surely as a writer you know that other people have different personalities and it might take them time to process what has happened to them, and just how wrong it was. Especially if they are 18. Especially if they were excited to have an opportunity to study with a well-known leading actor and star. Look at this board -- all of us well over 18 -- and how excited people are to get a simple read request or a email from a rep.

                  This is predatory beyond belief.

                  https://deadline.com/2019/10/james-f...ol-1202751862/

                  Quote: “Defendants’ scheme, like many, started slow, first encouraging female student actors to appear topless, then perform in sex scenes, then orgies and gratuitous full nudity for no other reason than Defendants could make them do it."

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                  • #24
                    Re: James Franco sued

                    Originally posted by Vango View Post
                    Read that full article in its entirety. I worked for the attorney general's office for 2 years and am completely neutral on these issues, Bono. There's no reason for me to defend anyone. Doe lied about what happened, tried to come up with a scheme to collect money, and the jury saw right through her. It is important to only consider the facts, and not feelings.
                    You worked for an AG and you don't find the business fraud aspects of the lawsuit troubling? Much easier to prove, no burden to prove consent/no consent, easier to discover facts, etc.

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                    • #25
                      Re: James Franco sued

                      Originally posted by figment View Post
                      Not everyone is you, megablah. Surely as a writer you know that other people have different personalities and it might take them time to process what has happened to them, and just how wrong it was. Especially if they are 18. Especially if they were excited to have an opportunity to study with a well-known leading actor and star. Look at this board -- all of us well over 18 -- and how excited people are to get a simple read request or a email from a rep.

                      This is predatory beyond belief.

                      https://deadline.com/2019/10/james-f...ol-1202751862/

                      Quote: "Defendants' scheme, like many, started slow, first encouraging female student actors to appear topless, then perform in sex scenes, then orgies and gratuitous full nudity for no other reason than Defendants could make them do it."
                      Ok, it's someone who took advantage of your trust, not an unequal power position. I'm just saying the answer is to create a social narrative that teaches people they have power, not one that tells them they don't. I feel like I addressed your points in the rest of my previous comment.

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                      • #26
                        Re: James Franco sued

                        Originally posted by Vango View Post
                        Hi Final. It seemed you wrote this post with a lot of emotion. Some attacks were made on me, but that's okay. I know it came from a place of passion. I did my best to respond to your questions (I bolded my responses). And yes, I did look at this article and case from a non-emotional, legal perspective, because I believe that's the best way to come to logical conclusions.
                        Look, Vango, you're entitled to your opinion and I do respect that even if I don't agree with it.

                        I'm not lawyer, and I haven't dived into yet, I read the article that summarized the allegations. Some of your statements are inflammatory, IMO. The often strike a cord with people who have and know people who are victims of exploitation.

                        And you clearly don't agree that Franco held power over these women, but imo he did, he held the power to get them on screen which could help their careers dramatically. We'll see when the case goes to court.

                        When I was commenting I was doing it one line at a time. I was not looking back or forward just hitting on your numbered points. Which seemed were victim blaming without even reading the case.

                        It goes without saying that people should be careful. We're human beings and sometimes when we make decisions our emotions may get in the way, it doesn't mean it's okay to exploit someone with abuse or fraud, because they weren't smart enough to figure out that they are working with predators.

                        And yeah, I was lit by your comments, because I've heard them more than i care. I'm passionate because at least these women are coming forward and if their allegations are proven, then good for them for making a difference in the world and sending a message to predators (whether abuse or fraud) that not everyone will let you get away with it.

                        Best,
                        FA4
                        "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: James Franco sued

                          Originally posted by Vango View Post
                          Bono, it was proven that the woman (Doe) whose images posted online showed her proclivity towards 3 somes, needed money at the time of the suit, and chose to sue Rose 2 years after the incident, instead of filing a criminal case against him. I don't know if Rose did it or didn't do it, but we can only go with the facts. Other facts include that they had sex regularly, and that Doe texted him that she was horny in the middle of the night. And that she told him to come over. When he and his friends got to the house, Doe said "one at a time." Bono -- I'm sorry, but for a couple/FWB couple that has had sex who knows how many times, Doe's case for the suit makes absolutely no sense from a logical perspective. And the jury agreed. The jury is not always correct, but it was here in my opinion.

                          Emotion cannot be used when making decisions like this.
                          I'm not familiar with the Rose case at all.

                          A woman can **** a guy 1,000 times, she can send him explicit text messages, she can also say she wants sex, but the minute she says, "no, I don't want this" and is FORCED to have sex, it is rape. Even if it's her own husband.

                          Again, I don't know the Rose case.

                          And it doesn't matter one iota if a woman has a proclivity for three somes. That's "slut shamming," and a double standard, because if a man has sex with several partners, he's a ****ing God, but if a woman does, she's a slut or a whore.

                          A girl sends a text saying "I need a sugar daddy," as a joke, and she's a girl would never give sex for gifts or money, she's never even had a boyfriend, but if someone raped her because he thought she wanted a "sugar daddy," they'd misuse that text. A text is not proof of consent.

                          anyway, moving on...
                          "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

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                          • #28
                            Re: James Franco sued

                            Being in a position of power is not the same thing as having power over people. High school teacher or a boss is very different than rich guy offering access to people he knows.

                            What he did may have been predatory, immoral, or even illegal (I don't know). But he did not have power to make these people do this stuff. Imagine one of these women was your friend. And they come to you and they say hey I'm taking this sex scene class with James Franco and he says the more clothes I take off the better chance I have that he's going to recommend me for parts and other movies. Are you going to say, well he's rich and famous and good-looking, and you paid the money, so you have no choice, you have to do it? Or are you going to say, that sounds really predatory and abusive, and I don't think you should go back to this class, and maybe you should even report this to the police?

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                            • #29
                              Re: James Franco sued

                              Originally posted by megablahblah View Post
                              I'm not going to get too deep into this, but "women who are in an unequal power position" is a bit of a stretch. They are adults who signed up for a class, they're not teens who are legally obligated to go to school, or people getting harassed by their boss at a job they need to survive.
                              They have power if the student believes or is told that if they participate the way they are asked it will help their career and open opportunities to be casted in a film. THAT is power. It is coercion and manipulation designed to take advantage because the perpetrator KNOWS he holds power over them.

                              Sexual abuse happens to females in every literally every profession and non-profession, like high school and college sports and non-profit activities.

                              You know what I would do if someone asked me to do something at a adult education class that I wasn't comfortable with? I wouldn't do it. I would stop going to the class and either eat the money or sue in small claims court... or go to the police if it was some kind of assault. The one thing I would NOT do is continue to get harassed.
                              You're not a female actress feeling you need to take a "sex scene" acting class. The thing about predators, is that they know how to manipulate people who are vulnerable and they do it slowly and over time.

                              It's the frog in boiling water metaphor... drop a frog in boiling water and it will immediately leap out, put a frog in tepid water and slowly bring it to a boil and the frog will be cooked alive.

                              Yea it sucks, and they might even deserve some kind of remedy, but it's not because of some power position. They just ran into someone who's an *******.

                              All that to say, we should stop teaching people they don't have power when they do. Teach people what their power is and how to use it. I know some people just don't get taught that, and they get abused, but seeing narratives like "adults in a voluntary class didn't have power to say no/stop" is ultimately counter-productive in my opinion.
                              I'm not sure it's a taught thing, really, but about inexperienced thing. But we should always be teaching our kids and friends that they have the power to walk away. Of course, it's never that simple.
                              FA4
                              "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: James Franco sued

                                Originally posted by megablahblah View Post
                                Being in a position of power is not the same thing as having power over people. High school teacher or a boss is very different than rich guy offering access to people he knows.
                                How exactly do you think it's not the same? Anytime you are in a position of power you have power over everyone below you, so yes, it is the same. And to the second? Well, no they are not "very different," it's simply a different situation, same power struggle.

                                Predators test boundaries. then they slowly, seemingly very slowly begin to push those boundaries until they train the victim to accept the "new" situation as acceptable, before advancing another step. It is systematic and deliberate.

                                What he did may have been predatory, immoral, or even illegal (I don't know). But he did not have power to make these people do this stuff. Imagine one of these women was your friend. And they come to you and they say hey I'm taking this sex scene class with James Franco and he says the more clothes I take off the better chance I have that he's going to recommend me for parts and other movies. Are you going to say, well he's rich and famous and good-looking, and you paid the money, so you have no choice, you have to do it? Or are you going to say, that sounds really predatory and abusive, and I don't think you should go back to this class, and maybe you should even report this to the police?
                                The thing about being a victim is that it's humiliating and embarrassing and rarely do victims have the confidence to tell anyone, because they feel they won't b believed, or they'll be attacked themselves.

                                Not everyone can recognize abuse when they are told about it. I have a very close friend who is a victim's advocate for the prosecutor's office and she deals with women who are exploited and abused everyday. It is not easy to come before a courtroom full of strangers and expose yourself.

                                If you've never experienced it, imo, it's unfair to judge another person just because you don't believe anyone could ever take advantage or abuse you.
                                "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

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