Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

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  • #16
    Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

    Originally posted by LauriD View Post
    I just learned that Blue Cat only uses one reader per script.
    Lauri, can you provide your source for this?

    If I understand this assertion correctly, then the winner has already been determined by the time the quarterfinalists have been announced based on one glowing review by any one of the script readers... and then they just sit around for almost two months dribbling out the information until the winner is announced.

    This is not only an extraordinary claim, but I feel it defies logic.

    BlueCat founder Gordy Hoffman isn't that hard to get in contact with. Do you know if he has confirmed this claim?

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    • #17
      Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

      Blue Cat, yep, I had two different readers. Two completely different sets of feedback.

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      • #18
        Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

        I know for a fact a reader at one of the big contest has not learned how to read yet.
        You only get one chance to rewrite it 100 times.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

          Originally posted by catcon View Post
          Blue Cat, yep, I had two different readers. Two completely different sets of feedback.
          Of course, there is the resubmission option, where you can specifically request a different reader than the first time. In fact, both submissions are considered separate entries with an equal shot at the prize; one doesn't automatically supersede the other.

          So what you're talking about doesn't counter Lauri's assertion, if I understand it correctly, that no single entry gets a second graded read at any time in the competition.

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          • #20
            Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

            I think it is important to know how to read.
            You only get one chance to rewrite it 100 times.

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            • #21
              Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

              Originally posted by Ravenlocks View Post
              A competent reader can get past his or her personal taste in films. They may still rate the screenplay's overall merit differently in some cases, just because people are people and we all have our own filters, but liking or disliking the genre shouldn't have anything to do with the score.
              Unless the reader sucks and doesn't understand the nature of his/her job, genre shouldn't matter one teeny-tiny iota.
              true. but neither should the name, sex, or race of the writer yet we know this does influence results...
              AND greg beal said they (for the Nicholls) do make an effort to match readers with genres they like and that's one reason why they have a genre breakdown.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

                Originally posted by TheKeenGuy View Post
                Lauri, can you provide your source for this?

                If I understand this assertion correctly, then the winner has already been determined by the time the quarterfinalists have been announced based on one glowing review by any one of the script readers... and then they just sit around for almost two months dribbling out the information until the winner is announced.

                This is not only an extraordinary claim, but I feel it defies logic.

                BlueCat founder Gordy Hoffman isn't that hard to get in contact with. Do you know if he has confirmed this claim?
                I submitted 3 scripts and got 3 sets of comments from what looked like 3 different readers. I asked via email whether the scripts got another read and asked whether, if so, I could get a second read on the 2 other scripts from the reader I thought was the best (most professional, most insightful, etc.) I was told by email that each script got one read. I have written back to confirm this.
                "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

                Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

                  Originally posted by LauriD View Post
                  I submitted 3 scripts and got 3 sets of comments from what looked like 3 different readers. I asked via email whether the scripts got another read and asked whether, if so, I could get a second read on the 2 other scripts from the reader I thought was the best (most professional, most insightful, etc.) I was told by email that each script got one read. I have written back to confirm this.
                  It sounds like there easily could be some miscommunication in that exchange. For instance, they may have thought you were requesting a second written analysis, or they may have been referring only to the quarterfinalist round, or they may have simply meant that each script is only guaranteed one read (which is not the same as a one-read maximum for all scripts), etc.

                  So, given that you have not received confirmation yet (and I don't know how long ago/how many times you've attempted to get confirmation), do you still feel certain that all scripts submitted to BlueCat only get one read, or is it fair to say that your original post was more speculative than it read?

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                  • #24
                    Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

                    The email from Blue Cat said "Each script is read once."

                    It's possible that there was a misunderstanding, which is why I emailed back to clarify that they indeed meant that it is read just once from the beginning to the end of the competition. That was a day or two ago. If I hear anything more I'll post it here.

                    And I'd still be interested to know how other contests work in this regard. Are there any under-employed people out there who'd like to put together a chart of what happens at each level in each major contest, sending emails if needed if the details aren't on the contest site?

                    For example, in the Nicholl the first round readers are people working in the industry, and later rounds are read by members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences -- i.e., the people who get to vote for the Oscars -- which is VERY cool. And the final round is judged by some serious machers. http://www.oscars.org/awards/nicholl/faqs.html

                    Zoetrope finalists are read by Francis Ford Coppola, among others. The year I won the More Magazine contest judges included Jeanne Tripplehorn and Glenn Close.

                    Some contests use readers at agencies and prodcos. There have been stories about contest entrants who didn't win but advanced their careers based on reads by judges who later contacted them about their scripts.

                    In contrast, I have read of contests that recruit readers off Craigslist for $10/script.

                    So I think potential entrants should know about both the quantity and quality of the people who will be reading their work.

                    L.
                    "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

                    Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

                      Originally posted by LauriD View Post
                      ...So I think potential entrants should know about both the quantity and quality of the people who will be reading their work.

                      L.
                      I thoroughly agree, and I think there should be some sort of standard for these contests for all the important factors, and a checklist.

                      It'd be like the surveys that are sent out to politicians during campaigns, and they either fill them in so voters have some sort of written promises (no matter whether or not they keep them!) and if they don't return the surveys that says something too!

                      It'll bump up the standards across the board.

                      Sorry, I'd have been one of those "underemployeds" to help out, but I'm back to 40 hours a week now. Stopped my screenwriting cold. I'm sooooo tired...

                      Anyway, I'm sure a topic on this board, to this effect, ought to generate a lot of outstanding "survey questions" that could be sent out. Take the best of every contest and put it out there. You can't make every point unachievable though. Writing questionnaires or surveys, and understanding the statistics generated therefrom, is a science. I don't know if anybody knows anything about it ear.

                      But let's see how many of those respondents who put up big, noisy "contest" advertisements end up just skulking away into the night once they see the "contest survey".

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

                        Originally posted by LauriD View Post
                        The email from Blue Cat said "Each script is read once."

                        It's possible that there was a misunderstanding, which is why I emailed back to clarify that they indeed meant that it is read just once from the beginning to the end of the competition. That was a day or two ago. If I hear anything more I'll post it here.

                        And I'd still be interested to know how other contests work in this regard. Are there any under-employed people out there who'd like to put together a chart of what happens at each level in each major contest, sending emails if needed if the details aren't on the contest site?

                        For example, in the Nicholl the first round readers are people working in the industry, and later rounds are read by members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences -- i.e., the people who get to vote for the Oscars -- which is VERY cool. And the final round is judged by some serious machers. http://www.oscars.org/awards/nicholl/faqs.html

                        Zoetrope finalists are read by Francis Ford Coppola, among others. The year I won the More Magazine contest judges included Jeanne Tripplehorn and Glenn Close.

                        Some contests use readers at agencies and prodcos. There have been stories about contest entrants who didn't win but advanced their careers based on reads by judges who later contacted them about their scripts.

                        In contrast, I have read of contests that recruit readers off Craigslist for $10/script.

                        So I think potential entrants should know about both the quantity and quality of the people who will be reading their work.

                        L.
                        Okay, so you did take "Each script is read once" and stretch it to the improbable extreme of "Each script is only read once throughout the entire competition" as a statement of fact at the start of the thread.

                        I'll also contact BlueCat and let them know about this thread so that we can get some kind of official word on this, rather than the current conjecture, sooner rather than later.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

                          Long time back on this board. I could write a very long post here, but I need to get back to BlueCat, as we announce our Quarterfinalists on Tuesday.

                          Each script is read once by a reader who I personally hire. I have my standards of who I hire, and I am the gatekeeper. Contrary to what people think, having a bunch of companies take scripts and judge them actually opens the adjudication to a lot of issues. Do you simply trust the company to have them adequately read? Who's reading these scripts?

                          I know all my readers personally and they answer to me as I hired them. We do not have the resources of AMPAS to pay readers three and four times. We will someday. I would love to have two people read each script, to make sure something doesn't slip through the cracks. I know some do, but overall, we have a great track record. Our process actually works pretty well. I hope one day to have the subsidies to make it stronger.

                          Once the scripts are read and all the feedback returns, we sort by scores and I start opening the scripts. So if you fall below a score, I will never see it. But I start going through, just me, and I end up with the lists we announce.

                          People do use the resubmission option to enter again when they feel a reader missed their script. They also use it to develop their script with a reader they like.

                          In the end, I think we judge as well as anyone the submissions that come in, and it's due to one person being in control of who reads. I hire our staff, see it all come in, and go back and crack the scripts. I feel bad for the lost scripts, always have, but I believe we make up to a large degree by not having a network of people who have never met or the judges have never directly met judge their competition. Perhaps it evens out.

                          One day our fees to enter will be the lowest, we will pay the readers a legitimate wage, and every script will be read and given feedback by at least two readers. We are in great shape to meet these goals, as we have wonderful plans for the future, and our contest has all our feedback out this year earlier than ever. This will be our best judged effort, and we will find the gems. I'm looking forward to it, as well as I anticipating the day when our process advances closer to perfect.

                          Just remember: it's people reading people's writing, and the closed doors have helped me more than winning the prize.

                          That's my story.

                          Please have fun and hopefully we can all get a chance to write today.

                          Gordy Hoffman
                          BlueCat

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                          • #28
                            Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

                            Well there you go. i am still confused.
                            You only get one chance to rewrite it 100 times.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

                              Originally posted by Gordy Hoffman View Post
                              I know all my readers personally and they answer to me as I hired them.
                              How does one get that job? I read for a little contest recently and really liked it. I'd like to do that again.
                              Chicks Who Script podcast

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Which contests have multiple readers? And does it matter?

                                From what I can tell, the main benefit BlueCat offers is the feedback. Beyond that, as has been stated above, it is very difficult to arrive at a good understanding of the quality of screenplays without having multiple reads.


                                BlueCat offers a good service, and most screenwriters who enter these competitions need feedback more than they need anything else. In a world where it is impossible to get enough reads, BlueCat is a good service and I recommend it.

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