Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

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  • #31
    Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

    Thanks, Mariot. Tried to join last week but there was a system snafu. I knew her as a person before knowing her as a writer and feel bad that she's getting all this flack for something that's not that out there.

    Oh, I see what you did there with the bold. Guess people who live and work in Hollywood and know other people who live and work in Hollywood have no place on a professional screenwriting site.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

      I read Margaux's original post and the post where she called people "****haters- and told writers to stop "sucking,- which was deleted also. I posted a couple of indignant comments where I basically said I was thankful that she expressed herself honestly because, although the truth may hurt, it also helps a lot, especially in screenwriting. (Weren't we all deluded and naive about the biz and our abilities when we were newbies?) So Margaux is not a nice person and she's (obviously) not that smart either. However, because of this, we got to find out a few ugly truths about competitions. It's good to know, no?

      I have heard Julie speak on a couple occasions and she seemed sincere, honest and truly committed to helping writers. I can see why her post from 2008 may sound wrong. But I recently heard her repeat, although in more detail, what's in that post.

      Here are my notes: http://dizzydentfilms.blogspot.com/2...nd-or-foe.html

      If we see the screenwriting business as a war between readers (the gatekeepers) and writers, then we were just given another weapon by the enemy. Treasure it and use it to your advantage.

      Sorry for the dumb metaphor. I have a headache and couldn't think of anything better.

      Last night, Jesus appeared to me in a dream and told me that loving me is the part of His job He hates the most.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

        Originally posted by killertv View Post
        I knew her as a person before knowing her as a writer and feel bad that she's getting all this flack for something that's not that out there.
        Bragging about not doing your job is not that out there for you???

        Sry, zazzo part deux...I ain't buying what you're shoveling.

        Saying that the bar is already that low doesn't disqualify your friend from her egregious behavior.

        I have a term for you:

        Righteous indignation.

        You should look it up so you can see how someone with no shame or guilt would act,
        The best way out is always through. - Robert Frost

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        • #34
          Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

          Originally posted by cynicide View Post
          But don't get too googly-eyed about her support for writers.
          Believe me, that's not where I'm at. This whole contest reeks and despite the fact that I didn't enter it, I'm pissed off for the writers that did.

          This doesn't change the fact that I believe both Julie and Margaux have some good intentions at heart. I'm not defending their actions, just suggesting that they may not be the evil people that these threads have painted them to be -- whether that was the intention of these posts or not.

          As we often say in screenwriting, every villain believes they're a hero.

          I do think they'd be better off if this was the end of the contest, and I don't think they're finished with damage control. Their best move here is a much more thorough and sincere public apology than we've seen so far.
          QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

            Originally posted by mariot View Post
            It's advertised as a screenwriting contest. It's not a title page contest or a page 1 contest.

            If they only want to read 3 pages they should tell entrants to submit 3 pages.

            They don't do that because no one would pay 50 bucks to have 3 pages read.

            And they want that 50 bucks.

            $50 x 1000 entrants = $50,000
            and, yes, every script is given the same chance to win. the reader will read the script until it starts sucking... some scripts suck on the first page; some start sucking on page 30. based on that, the script that started sucking on page 30 is better than the script that started sucking on page one.

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            • #36
              Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

              Originally posted by cupertinoCA View Post
              and, yes, every script is given the same chance to win. the reader will read the script until it starts sucking... some scripts suck on the first page; some start sucking on page 30. based on that, the script that started sucking on page 30 is better than the script that started sucking on page one.
              She read 75 scripts in 3 hours. That's less than three minutes per script. She also had to file and make notes on each one of these scripts. How many of these screenplays do you think were actually given a chance? How many do you think she actually read to page 30? My guess would be zero. Quite obviously, she gave in to her own laziness here.
              QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

                Originally posted by zenplato View Post
                Bragging about not doing your job is not that out there for you???

                Sry, zazzo part deux...I ain't buying what you're shoveling.
                This is my biggest problem with these threads - the fact that people think she is "bragging" about going through all those scripts so quickly. There's no bragging. It's a statement of fact and one stated with not glee (as most braggarts speak) but with disgust. All readers want to find a good script. The diamonds in the rough. We're on your side - until you give us reasons to think you're not good.

                Though go ahead. Have your indignation. But it's not righteous, it's immature. Have you read seventy-five scripts submitted to an open call vs. one contest winner? Doesn't take more than a second to see the difference.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

                  Originally posted by Knaight View Post
                  She read 75 scripts in 3 hours. That's less than three minutes per script. She also had to file and make notes on each one of these scripts. How many of these screenplays do you think were actually given a chance? How many do you think she actually read to page 30? My guess would be zero. Quite obviously, she gave in to her own laziness here.
                  again if i read julie's post correctly, margaux read scripts that were already rejected because of low scores. the twenty margaux passed along were given a second life. they still had to be vetted and scored by another reader. so the 20 that margaux moved onto the next round was the preqf round, apparently not the quarterfinalists.

                  i fault margaux for bragging about reading these low scoring scripts, 75 in 3 hrs. but if julie's story is true, and only if, then i have a hard time faulting her for this debacle.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

                    Originally posted by NatachaVonBraun View Post
                    I read Margaux's original post and the post where she called people "****haters- and told writers to stop "sucking,- which was deleted also. I posted a couple of indignant comments where I basically said I was thankful that she expressed herself honestly because, although the truth may hurt, it also helps a lot, especially in screenwriting. (Weren't we all deluded and naive about the biz and our abilities when we were newbies?) So Margaux is not a nice person and she's (obviously) not that smart either. However, because of this, we got to find out a few ugly truths about competitions. It's good to know, no?

                    I have heard Julie speak on a couple occasions and she seemed sincere, honest and truly committed to helping writers. I can see why her post from 2008 may sound wrong. But I recently heard her repeat, although in more detail, what's in that post.

                    Here are my notes: http://dizzydentfilms.blogspot.com/2...nd-or-foe.html

                    If we see the screenwriting business as a war between readers (the gatekeepers) and writers, then we were just given another weapon by the enemy. Treasure it and use it to your advantage.

                    Sorry for the dumb metaphor. I have a headache and couldn't think of anything better.
                    Thanks for the notes. Makes things clearer.
                    Nobody's perfect.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

                      Originally posted by killertv View Post
                      There's no bragging. It's a statement of fact and one stated with not glee (as most braggarts speak) but with disgust.
                      You're right. She should be disgusted that people paid so much money for her to read their scripts. Good or not, they PAID.

                      Ten pages per script I could see. Three? Two? One? A title page? That is disgusting.

                      You're not helping the case for her character by making these posts.
                      QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

                        Originally posted by killertv View Post
                        This is my biggest problem with these threads - the fact that people think she is "bragging" about going through all those scripts so quickly. There's no bragging. It's a statement of fact and one stated with not glee (as most braggarts speak) but with disgust. All readers want to find a good script. The diamonds in the rough. We're on your side - until you give us reasons to think you're not good.

                        Though go ahead. Have your indignation. But it's not righteous, it's immature. Have you read seventy-five scripts submitted to an open call vs. one contest winner? Doesn't take more than a second to see the difference.
                        I hope your scripts are better than your arguments...seriously.

                        I don't want to hear your irrelevant conclusion, or your ad populum argument (just to let you know, they're both logical fallacies). I want to hear why as an end-user, I didn't get ripped off by your friend who spent a whopping three hours on 75 scripts and discarded them for superficial reasons.

                        I'm waiting...

                        (I'll give you a hint, try using reason and logic...not rhetoric)
                        The best way out is always through. - Robert Frost

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

                          Originally posted by lordmanji View Post
                          but if julie's story is true, and only if, then i have a hard time faulting her for this debacle.
                          Problem is, no one on that side of the fence is saying the same thing. It's hard to know exactly what's true. Based on the original post by Margaux and the 2008 post by Julie, I have trouble believing that the scripts were judged any other way.
                          QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

                            Originally posted by lordmanji View Post
                            again if i read julie's post correctly, margaux read scripts that were already rejected because of low scores. the twenty margaux passed along were given a second life. they still had to be vetted and scored by another reader. so the 20 that margaux moved onto the next round was the preqf round, apparently not the quarterfinalists.

                            i fault margaux for bragging about reading these low scoring scripts, 75 in 3 hrs. but if julie's story is true, and only if, then i have a hard time faulting her for this debacle.
                            I don't know where you're getting this from.

                            In the rules Julie posted in the first post of this thread there is no mention of a pre-quarterfinal round.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

                              Originally posted by TheKeenGuy View Post
                              I can't figure out how any of this possibly adds up to anything criminal, especially because I cannot find any evidence on the SilverScreenwriting webpage of promises not lived up to.
                              I'd be more than willing to bet money that if an entrant was pissed off enough to takes this to small claims court he'd win easily and I'd make some sure money.

                              Unless there's some specific mention on the entry guidelines that your script might only have three pages read, there's a pretty strong implied commitment that, in a paid SCREENPLAY contest, someone reads the screenplay.

                              If there was a 5k running contest and, after you paid your $50 to get in, a judge kicked you to the curb after running a block because it was clear you're not a very good runner, you'd sure as hell have a case then.
                              Steven Palmer Peterson

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Words Matter. And So Do Rules.

                                Originally posted by Knaight View Post
                                You're right. She should be disgusted that people paid so much money for her to read their scripts. Good or not, they PAID.

                                Ten pages per script I could see. Three? Two? One? A title page? That is disgusting.

                                You're not helping the case for her character by making these posts.
                                Maybe I should stop posting, but I have a feeling you'll impugn her character either way so I'll try to make my point a little harder.

                                Don't be naive - NO ONE PAID FOR HER TO READ THE WHOLE SCRIPT. That's called coverage. Coverage is a lot more expensive than entering contests because UNLIKE CONTESTS COVERAGE GUARANTEES THEY'LL READ THE WHOLE SCRIPT. Coverage waits until the last page to see what you were trying to do on the first page. A contest sees what you tried on the first page and if it makes you want to read the last.

                                The "title page gets it thrown out" argument is also a gross exaggeration of the actual process and just helps my argument that you're being naive.

                                It should be noted Margaux was in the Warner Bros Fellowshi[, one of the elite studio sponsored TV writing contests which explicitly says it only cares about what is on the page. She may know a thing or two about writing and judging contests.

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