Confessions of a Contest Judge

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  • Confessions of a Contest Judge

    This apparently has been on Two Adverbs for some time.

    http://twoadverbs.com/sc/index.htm

    A few highlights:

    My wrath means a silent defeat for you, because you didn't follow a few simple rules. Rules that help me choose you out of the endless sea of screenplays that overwhelm the Hollywood screenwriting contest scene.

    Nope. See, you've got fifteen pages to grab me, before your work gets heaved into the dumpster.

    Oh, I can hear the curses and moans now. "I paid a fifty dollar entrance fee, you're being paid to read the entire screenplay.-

    Wrong again. I am being paid to find the top three scripts out of (let's say) the eighty I have to sort through. This is a contest, not coverage. Very big difference. You are competing, not seeking feedback.

    OK, so your first ten pages are smooth - in terms of presentation to the eye, otherwise known as white space. It will not go into the great screenplay graveyard, well not yet, anyway. I then flip through the script at random. I read sections of dialogue. Are people actually talking, or just exchanging pleasantries? I pick two scenes at random to read all the way through.



    You can read the rest on the 2A site. The contests this reader judges are not mentioned. Been on the site for a while apparently.
    "I talked to a couple of yes men at Metro. To me they said no."


    http://wagstaffnet.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

    it would make sense that contests should change the rules a bit -- have writers send the first 20 pages in the first round, and then a percentage who advance send in their full script for the next round, and then a percentage who advance can send in a revised or tweaked version... since many are always (or should be) working to perfect each script that worthy of attention... for the final/winning round.

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    • #3
      Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

      All the books tell you to nail the opening ten pages.

      Your suggestion of just sending those is interesting. Wouldn't allow the "sampling" though of the rest of the script. They also want the full damn fee. Don't forget that small detail.

      A book on being a Hollywood assistant describes the 20/10/10 method of script coverage. Read the first twenty, middle ten, and last ten. Speeds up doing coverage if you're going through a stack of scripts. And that's to do written coverage.

      Contests it's just a big weed out until the fifty or so left standing. Note also the reader is advancing three scripts from their stack. What if the six best scripts of the entire contest happen to be in that stack? Sorry. Out of luck.

      As a pro writer keeps telling me, "Nobody wants to read your script. Not an insult to you. They just don't want to read.". Says he's been in many meetings where executive calls him in and it's quickly obvious exec did not read the script. Read the coverage only and skimmed that. So you go into the pitch.
      "I talked to a couple of yes men at Metro. To me they said no."


      http://wagstaffnet.blogspot.com/

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      • #4
        Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

        but as the reader(s) writes in your initial post - this is not "coverage" so the judging process can be whatever the contest organizers want and criteria/standards should be regulated and uniform for all judges.
        Originally posted by C.C.Baxter View Post
        All the books tell you to nail the opening ten pages.

        Your suggestion of just sending those is interesting. Wouldn't allow the "sampling" though of the rest of the script. They also want the full damn fee. Don't forget that small detail.
        if they cut the price of contests in half they would get twice as many entrants.
        and what if they said 20 bucks for the first 20 pages. if you advance (say top 25%) then you send us the rest of the script for and additional 20 bucks. who wouldn't pay that if they thought they had a chance?

        some contests now (ie - blue cat & champion) allow you to "resubmit" late in the competition for an additional fee.

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        • #5
          Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

          Regulated by whom? How would you possibly enforce that?

          Big assumption a ten page contest would get 2x the entrants. There are a limited number of people entering contests. Likely Nicholl is the full universe of those participating each year. So that's 6500 fish in the contest sea. But there are 3x entries allowed. So how many writers total? 3500-4000? That's it.

          I don't think, say, BlueCat, which got 3000 entries, is going to get 6000 going to a ten page cheaper contest. They'd just cut their own entries and profit margin charging less.

          People just need to work over their script and nail the opening. This information has been out there for years. Why is it surprising?

          Note also at many prod cos or agencies it's the intern (unpaid early 20s) that's doing the coverage.
          "I talked to a couple of yes men at Metro. To me they said no."


          http://wagstaffnet.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

            i'm just spitballin'.

            regulated? - ie - have criteria sheets spelled out (25% dialogue, $25 character, 25% style, 25% formatting) or whatever

            i would never suggest nicholl change their format. they already have a great reputation. why mess with that.
            and blue cat too has a pretty good reputation b/c they give free comments for every entry.
            it's other contests that need to step up their game.

            why do you keep saying "coverage"? this is why people assume their entire script is being read and evaluated and causing a huge problem.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

              Why not have contest administrators just be honest about the judging process?

              The submission fees would remain the same, but instead of putting forth the illusion that all scripts are read in their entirety, they could say, for example: In the first round, eliminations will be made based on a reading of the first thirty pages. Those screenplays that advance to the next round will be read in their entirety.

              I don't know of any writer who wouldn't still enter, because writers assume they will advance to the next round. Hope springs eternal!

              Late Night Writer

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              • #8
                Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

                There was a contest for a while that required the first twenty pages. Don't know if it's still going.

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                • #9
                  Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

                  Please keep in mind I am a novice, and I have never entered a contest -

                  But as an interested observer, I wonder if worrying about a contest judge not reading a script in its entirety would suggest an admission that the first 10 or 20 pages are not that good, but it does get better near the end.

                  If you think your script is solid, then you needn't worry - the judge should be dying to finish it and push it to the next round.

                  Am I way off, here?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

                    Nicholl judges get 300 scripts. Takes a pro reader half a day to cover a script. Two a day. That's 150 days. Taking weekends that's about half a year. Then there are second and third reads.

                    First 20 or 30 is standard for all the contest. Difference is quality of judges.
                    "I talked to a couple of yes men at Metro. To me they said no."


                    http://wagstaffnet.blogspot.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

                      Originally posted by Angus McGuffin View Post
                      Please keep in mind I am a novice, and I have never entered a contest -

                      But as an interested observer, I wonder if worrying about a contest judge not reading a script in its entirety would suggest an admission that the first 10 or 20 pages are not that good, but it does get better near the end.

                      If you think your script is solid, then you needn't worry - the judge should be dying to finish it and push it to the next round.

                      Am I way off, here?
                      I think you're making a lot of assumptions. I don't care how good a script is, if I only skim pgs 1-10, then read pgs 23, 51, and 104, there's no way I can get into it (much less be "dying to finish it").

                      This would be like if I asked you to review a film for me and then I showed you minute 1-10 at fast-forward, then four other random minutes of footage. Is there any way you could tell me if it's a good film?
                      Looking to take the "Bono" off my screenname.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

                        Originally posted by ProBono Writer View Post
                        This would be like if I asked you to review a film for me and then I showed you minute 1-10 at fast-forward, then four other random minutes of footage. Is there any way you could tell me if it's a good film?
                        No, but I could tell you it's a terrible film. These opening screening processes aren't to FIND the winner - they're to DROP the losers! The winning script will be read beginning to end because it's an entertaining read beginning to end. Anything less is not the goal of screenwriting.

                        Ultimately, the best script in any contest will have a good first ten pages. The top ten should all meet that qualification. Why would anything less even be considered to be a potential winner when out of thousands of entries there will certainly be others with a great first ten pages?

                        Angus has the right idea - they'll read the first couple of lines for sure. The point is that a seasoned writer will hook them there. Someone who knows the craft will have the reader wanting to finish the first page after the first line and the rest of the script after the first page.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

                          Same thing with film contests. Nobody sits through every minute of every submission. God help them if they do.

                          The usual line on first ten rejects: If you can't write ten good pages chances are you can't write a hundred. It's a weed out process. Give me a reason to reject your script.
                          "I talked to a couple of yes men at Metro. To me they said no."


                          http://wagstaffnet.blogspot.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

                            Originally posted by C.C.Baxter View Post
                            Nicholl judges get 300 scripts. Takes a pro reader half a day to cover a script. Two a day. That's 150 days. Taking weekends that's about half a year. Then there are second and third reads.

                            First 20 or 30 is standard for all the contest. Difference is quality of judges.
                            Average number of scripts read by each Nicholl judge this year was under 200. Reading began in March and ended in July so it was spread out over many weeks.

                            Nicholl judges are not writing coverage, just reading the scripts and filling out a one page score sheet, so it's closer to an hour or so per script.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Confessions of a Contest Judge

                              Don't even mention Nicholl in the same breath as other contests. The level of professionalism is light years apart. You are not even getting close to an appropriate comparison. There is no perfect system, but Nicholl get's about as close as any of us can hope for to an honest and fair evaluation, given the huge number of screenplays involved.


                              As to these contests that have readers who treat the screenplays the way that is reported above, I think it's absolutely disgusting. I have been fortunate to do well in most of the competitions I have entered, but I know the amount of care that goes into writing even an average screenplay. They are treating these screenplays as if they have been submitted to them for consideration to be produced, which they have not been. They have been submitted in a competition and should be judged on the several elements that make for a good screenplay. And you can not determine all of these elements by reading only 10 or 15 pages.


                              Just as an example, you absolutely can't offer a score on something like "story" if you've read only 15 pages. Impossible. And yet, I am absolutely sure they do provide scores for story on the screenplays they throw in the dumpster after only 15 pages. Or even 3 pages as has been reported elsewhere.



                              Just my rant...



                              .

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