Trackinb Contest

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  • Re: Trackinb Contest

    An hungry Fox with fierce attack
    Sprang on a Vine, but tumbled back,
    Nor could attain the point in view,
    So near the sky the bunches grew.
    As he went off, "They're scurvy stuff,"
    Says he, "and not half ripe enough--
    And I 've more rev'rence for my tripes
    Than to torment them with the gripes."
    For those this tale is very pat
    Who lessen what they can't come at.

    Comment


    • Re: Trackinb Contest

      Originally posted by sc111 View Post
      I have no problem with contests -- especially those respected within the industry. But this argument seems silly to me.
      It's not silly. It's common sense. Emailing a query containing a logline that's followed up with a sentence saying, "The script was a Nicholl semi-finalist" or whatever is better than emailing a query containing just the logline.

      If the rep is on the fence about the logline, maybe the Nicholl placement pushes him over and gets him to request the read? It definitely can only help.

      I'm not saying people should enter contests (and I'm not talking about ANY contest...the big ones) solely to beef up their query emails. People should be entering contests to win them.

      Her argument is entirely valid and in a way supports yours. A contest win or placement referenced in a query letter only entices the rep and supports the material even more.
      "I hate to break it to you but there is no big lie. There is no system. The universe is indifferent.- - Don Draper

      Comment


      • Re: Trackinb Contest

        Originally posted by joe9alt View Post
        It's not silly. It's common sense. Emailing a query containing a logline that's followed up with a sentence saying, "The script was a Nicholl semi-finalist" or whatever is better than emailing a query containing just the logline.

        If the rep is on the fence about the logline, maybe the Nicholl placement pushes him over and gets him to request the read? It definitely can only help.

        I'm not saying people should enter contests (and I'm not talking about ANY contest...the big ones) solely to beef up their query emails. People should be entering contests to win them.

        Her argument is entirely valid and in a way supports yours. A contest win or placement referenced in a query letter only entices the rep and supports the material even more.

        Thanks for summing up her argument (is Sundown a her or him?).

        Sure, a mention of a contest win may give your query email an edge. But I don't think it will give an edge so game-changing it's worthy of this long debate. That was my point re: silly remark. I didn't mean Sundown's quoted post was silly, persay. Sorry for the confusion.

        If "edge" means a rep requests your script, for that matter, lots of other things mentioned in your query email may nudge the recipient into requesting your script.

        But, ultimately, it's concept followed by execution. That's the way I see it.

        My opine -- I wouldn't give the contests more weight than necessary because there are so many variables. A number of folks have placed in Nicholl, or other well respected contests in one year, only to get dinged on the same script in the same contest the next year. Different year, different readers, tougher entry competition, etc. ... And we've all heard of a couple folks who seem to win or place in gobs of contests yet still find themselves at square one.
        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

        Comment


        • Re: Trackinb Contest

          Originally posted by Why One View Post


          For example, Ryan Condal landed a read from Energy Entertainment after a Nicholl QF placement. They ended up repping him. They then sold a different script (GALAHAD) to The Film Department.

          .
          It's still just hype. The way Condal talks, you can tell he's never seen anything he's written on a screen:

          "I think there’s a formula to screenwriting, and there certainly is, and anybody who says there isn’t is either kidding themselves or lying to you…"

          He's on a tangent with all that, there isn't a formula to screenwriting. He would learn that if he watched one of his own movies, which he hasn't had the opportunity to do. It's all still just playing out in his imagination.

          And I don't want to get too far into the "maybes" and "what ifs", it's all hypothetical, but I think he would have got a lot further if he'd gone down a different road.

          What if -XL- hadn't won?

          Maybe he would have pushed the script further locally, and got it produced, and built a career around his own scripts in the UK. And then flown out here with a lot more cred than just an amateur contest win. We will never know.

          They seem to get writing work and "sales" that don't eventuate into anything.

          I don't know if hype is actually the enemy, but I think it can send people off in the wrong direction. I think the most rewarding careers start with getting your own work onto a screen. I think that's what you have to stay loyal to. And I think it's in that process that you learn the most about screenwriting.

          Comment


          • Re: Trackinb Contest

            Originally posted by nojustice View Post
            It's still just hype. The way Condal talks, you can tell he's never seen anything he's written on a screen:

            "I think there's a formula to screenwriting, and there certainly is, and anybody who says there isn't is either kidding themselves or lying to you..."

            He's on a tangent with all that, there isn't a formula to screenwriting. He would learn that if he watched one of his own movies, which he hasn't had the opportunity to do. It's all still just playing out in his imagination.

            And I don't want to get too far into the "maybes" and "what ifs", it's all hypothetical, but I think he would have got a lot further if he'd gone down a different road.

            What if -XL- hadn't won?

            Maybe he would have pushed the script further locally, and got it produced, and built a career around his own scripts in the UK. And then flown out here with a lot more cred than just an amateur contest win. We will never know.

            They seem to get writing work and "sales" that don't eventuate into anything.

            I don't know if hype is actually the enemy, but I think it can send people off in the wrong direction. I think the most rewarding careers start with getting your own work onto a screen. I think that's what you have to stay loyal to. And I think it's in that process that you learn the most about screenwriting.
            I'm sorry, what?
            Introduce a little anarchy.

            Comment


            • Re: Trackinb Contest

              Originally posted by nojustice View Post
              It's still just hype. The way Condal talks, you can tell he's never seen anything he's written on a screen:

              "I think there's a formula to screenwriting, and there certainly is, and anybody who says there isn't is either kidding themselves or lying to you..."

              He's on a tangent with all that, there isn't a formula to screenwriting. He would learn that if he watched one of his own movies, which he hasn't had the opportunity to do. It's all still just playing out in his imagination.

              And I don't want to get too far into the "maybes" and "what ifs", it's all hypothetical, but I think he would have got a lot further if he'd gone down a different road.

              What if -XL- hadn't won?

              Maybe he would have pushed the script further locally, and got it produced, and built a career around his own scripts in the UK. And then flown out here with a lot more cred than just an amateur contest win. We will never know.

              They seem to get writing work and "sales" that don't eventuate into anything.

              I don't know if hype is actually the enemy, but I think it can send people off in the wrong direction. I think the most rewarding careers start with getting your own work onto a screen. I think that's what you have to stay loyal to. And I think it's in that process that you learn the most about screenwriting.
              I knew this was a gag.

              The jig is up, Farnsworth!!!
              "I hate to break it to you but there is no big lie. There is no system. The universe is indifferent.- - Don Draper

              Comment


              • Re: Trackinb Contest

                Seriously dude, you need to read the AS forums, they've got mirror images of you there.

                You people need to reclaim writing. It's not what's outside of you, it's what's inside of you.

                And I'm not going to argue about this anymore. Do whatever the hell you want.

                Comment


                • Re: Trackinb Contest

                  Originally posted by nojustice View Post
                  It's still just hype. The way Condal talks, you can tell he's never seen anything he's written on a screen:

                  "I think there's a formula to screenwriting, and there certainly is, and anybody who says there isn't is either kidding themselves or lying to you..."

                  He's on a tangent with all that, there isn't a formula to screenwriting. He would learn that if he watched one of his own movies, which he hasn't had the opportunity to do. It's all still just playing out in his imagination.

                  And I don't want to get too far into the "maybes" and "what ifs", it's all hypothetical, but I think he would have got a lot further if he'd gone down a different road.

                  What if -XL- hadn't won?

                  Maybe he would have pushed the script further locally, and got it produced, and built a career around his own scripts in the UK. And then flown out here with a lot more cred than just an amateur contest win. We will never know.

                  They seem to get writing work and "sales" that don't eventuate into anything.

                  I don't know if hype is actually the enemy, but I think it can send people off in the wrong direction. I think the most rewarding careers start with getting your own work onto a screen. I think that's what you have to stay loyal to. And I think it's in that process that you learn the most about screenwriting.
                  There is so much wrong with the above post, I don't even know where to start--but we could definitely begin with the clearly implied notion that your way is the only way and that, somehow, the road that led to Condal and XL becoming working screenwriters was the wrong one because it may not yet have made them successful enough.

                  And, have you even read their work? Don't be so ****ing dismissive of it. It's good enough to get made today. As a working screenwriter who has been produced I would think you'd have a little more respect for your fellow scribes.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Trackinb Contest

                    I'm not dismissing their work. I'm sure they're very talented. I'm dismissing the road hype will take you on.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Trackinb Contest

                      Originally posted by nojustice View Post
                      You people need to reclaim writing. It's not what's outside of you, it's what's inside of you.
                      All that's inside me is the very expensive lunch I just ate.
                      Reaction time is a factor, so please pay attention.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Trackinb Contest

                        Originally posted by nojustice View Post
                        I'm not dismissing their work. I'm sure they're very talented. I'm dismissing the road hype will take you on.
                        Every time you try to desperately hang on to some sort of coherent point, you actually sink deeper into a hole.

                        They are working screenwriters whose material was read everywhere and loved. If you are a working screenwriter then you should know that there's no connection between contest wins and the fact that their respective scripts haven't yet been produced. Really. There's no connection. Stop trying so hard. Your fundamental point does not connect to these guys. It's ridiculous.

                        And, "He talks like a guy whose work has never made it to the screen" is just a bullshit statement, it's dismissive without justification, particularly in light of the fact that you have no idea how good the guy is.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Trackinb Contest

                          Originally posted by nojustice View Post
                          I'm not dismissing their work. I'm sure they're very talented. I'm dismissing the road hype will take you on.
                          Yep, and here's some more hype:

                          Ehren Kruger had Paradigm agents who would not send Arlington Road out. Too dark, won't do you any good, they told him.

                          About the same time, he entered all of his scripts in the Nicholl competition. Just missed advancing with one, reached the top 30 with another, won with Arlington Road.

                          It was bought as a direct result of a Nicholl judge reading it and was produced in short order.

                          Mike Rich worked in radio and had a media connection who got Finding Forrester to a VP at Sony Pictures. She sent him a rejection letter.

                          Several months later Finding Forrester won a Nicholl Fellowship. He signed with UTA, Larry Mark took the script into Sony, which bought it, with the same VP as an executive on the project. The film was produced in short order. Mike has the rejection letter framed in his office.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Trackinb Contest

                            So you can give us 2 examples. Now give us the number of entrants. How many tens of thousands entered in all of those years to get those 2 results.

                            So that's about 1 in 200,000

                            And would either of them have stopped trying to find someone for these scripts?

                            It's frikkin hype.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Trackinb Contest

                              Originally posted by nojustice View Post
                              They seem to get writing work and "sales" that don't eventuate into anything.

                              I don't know if hype is actually the enemy, but I think it can send people off in the wrong direction. I think the most rewarding careers start with getting your own work onto a screen. I think that's what you have to stay loyal to. And I think it's in that process that you learn the most about screenwriting.
                              Most writing work and "sales" don't eventuate to a produced movie. That's just how hard it is to get anything made. There are probably tens of thousands of other accounts from writers travelling through different paths that still land reps and then later dropped -- that still don't get any closer to getting a movie produced.

                              With your logic we can say the same thing about all these avenues:

                              -- Querying is just hype
                              -- Pitch fests are just hype
                              -- Moving to LA is just hype
                              -- Getting an assistant job is just hype
                              -- Producing your own short is just hype
                              -- Doing well in a festival is just hype
                              -- Networking is just hype

                              Because for every success story, there are tens of thousands that don't make it.

                              There is no magic bullet. You keep writing and you keep pushing. And you try to get your material into as many hands as you can.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Trackinb Contest

                                This thread has gone on a bit long now and it's really starting to go in circles. I'm seeing far too many unnecessary comments that just aren't helping anyone out at this stage.

                                If someone doesn't like contests, then don't enter them. You're more than welcome to have that opinion and stance. But others have found them useful and that's great for them. Some seem to be trying to make the same point over and over again, and I'm pretty sure we all got the message many pages & posts ago.

                                We don't need all these back and forths. State your opinion or view and move on. Most people are more than capable enough to make up their minds as to what will work for them and it's ultimately their own personal responsibility to do so. There's all kinds of great advice throughout these forums to help writers make informed decisions.

                                So please wrap all this up (very) soon. Thanks.
                                Will
                                Done Deal Pro
                                www.donedealpro.com

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