Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

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  • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    There is a tendency among creative types to assume, not without some justification, that the rest of humanity is composed of people obsessed with "rules." Creative types naturally exaggerate the prevalence of this sort of thinking and therefore often go through life feeling that they're just one little petty infraction away from being banished to some Gulag by the iron fist of The Man. This is in part why you keep seeing all these frantic "how many spaces?" threads and the like. They're just trying to adapt.

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    • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

      Originally posted by mrjonesprods View Post
      Aspirant, by expressing your misguided opinions, you're creating a false issue. For every script you show me with two spaces after a period, I can show you two with one. This conversation is like debating if people should bold a slug line or if you should use "we see." No one who matters cares. And in this case, if someone got eliminated from a contest for this idiotic reason, it is not a reputable contest or one worth winning anyway. I guarantee if you did one space on your next script your managers wouldn't even notice.

      So often around here you see people, yourself included, perpetuate falsehoods about this business and craft that are just wrong. This type of conjecture is just not helpful. If you don't have practical experience with a subject, you don't have to express an opinion. There are people on this site who do make a living at this.
      Not everyone in Hollywood is the same. Sure, some people may not be bothered by one space, but I consider it unprofessional and not properly formatted. Would I toss a great script in the trash because of it.? Probably not.

      That said, I would almost certainly think the writer in question was less than professional. I obviously don't speak for all professionals. However, neither should you. Just because you make a living at writing, doesn't mean your opinions are blanket rules that every writer in Hollywood should abide by.

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      • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

        Originally posted by Vertigo51 View Post
        Would I toss a great script in the trash because of it.? Probably not.
        So you're saying you might toss a great script because of single-spacing.

        Really?

        Please tell us how this adversely affects the read for you.

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        • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

          Originally posted by ATB View Post
          So you're saying you might toss a great script because of single-spacing.

          Really?

          Please tell us how this adversely affects the read for you.
          Because its not properly formatted. While that is a point that is obviously under debate, I consider proper spacing/formatting to be no different, than say proper spelling: a few errors here and there can be overlooked.

          However, if the same problem happens consistently throughout the script, that makes it obvious that the writer failed to read the script multiple times, in order to correct said mistakes.

          If I recommend a script with 20 spelling or formatting errors to my partners, that makes ME look bad.

          When a job applicant sends out a resume in the real world, it's expected that said resume will be properly formatted with no spelling errors (and yes, I realize there are various ways to format a resume). If an applicant submits a resume riddled with spelling/formatting errors, that resume would most likely be tossed in the trash. Why should a writer submitting a script be treated any differently?

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          • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

            It's fun to pretend. Sometimes I put a can on my head and I'm an astronaut!

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            • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

              Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
              It's fun to pretend. Sometimes I put a can on my head and I'm an astronaut!

              Ready for liftoff!


              Headed to space!

              Houston, we have the munchies!
              If you really like it you can have the rights
              It could make a million for you overnight

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              • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                Originally posted by MrZero View Post
                Creative types naturally exaggerate the prevalence of this sort of thinking and therefore often go through life feeling that they're just one little petty infraction away from being banished to some Gulag by the iron fist of The Man.
                How'd that work out for Alexander Solzhenitsyn? He tried something as small and insignificant as single-spacing and look where it got him...
                Aiming for mediocrity and falling well short =)

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                • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                  Given some comments on this thread, I just have to ask those claiming that two spaces after a period is absolutely correct, what about the following examples?

                  ... or . . .

                  INT. or INT

                  EXT. LIVING ROOM DAY (imagine there are two or three spaces after ROOM or not)
                  or
                  EXT. LIVING ROOM - DAY
                  or
                  EXT. LIVING ROOM- DAY
                  or
                  EXT LIVING ROOM DAY
                  or . . .

                  30 or 32 or 34 character limit for dialogue.

                  COURIER NEW or COURIER or FD COURIER . . .

                  Exactly 60 character limit for description.

                  51-57 lines per page but never more or less.

                  I could go on for a long time with these sorts of examples, but if anyone is going to claim that these variations matter and might cause their company or agency or contest to reject a script, then they're living in a world where Jeff Lowell is an alien astronaut and probably responsible for the recent "death" of Dr. Who.

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                  • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                    Greg: we've been talking about spaces after periods at the end of sentences (not ellipses or abbreviation marks), so your examples are not relevant. Two spaces after sentence-ending periods may not be "absolutely correct," in a universal sense, but they are grammatically correct and have long been considered appropriate for Courier. The extent to which writers or readers do or should care about this is a separate issue, and one about which there appears to be a reasonable (non-pretend) difference of opinion, even among professionals, though your astronaut friend cannot seem to tolerate it.

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                    • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                      Originally posted by ATB View Post
                      So you're saying you might toss a great script because of single-spacing.

                      Really?

                      Please tell us how this adversely affects the read for you.
                      Originally posted by Vertigo51 View Post
                      Because its not properly formatted.
                      Or because it's not properly spelt.

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                      • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                        Originally posted by Aspirant View Post
                        Greg: we've been talking about spaces after periods at the end of sentences (not ellipses or abbreviation marks), so your examples are not relevant. Two spaces after sentence-ending periods may not be "absolutely correct," in a universal sense, but they are grammatically correct and have long been considered appropriate for Courier. The extent to which writers or readers do or should care about this is a separate issue, and one about which there appears to be a reasonable (non-pretend) difference of opinion, even among professionals, though your astronaut friend cannot seem to tolerate it.
                        I guess I wasn't clear enough earlier. I'll try again.

                        Anyone who allows one or two spaces after a period within a paragraph to affect their read of a screenplay (or any other document, for that matter) is an idiot.

                        This is a forest and trees issue. The forest is what matters.

                        (BTW, I'm ancient and still tend to insert two spaces after every period when I write anything.)

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                        • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                          If the Pope sh*ts in the woods, and there's no one to hear it, are bears Catholic?
                          If you really like it you can have the rights
                          It could make a million for you overnight

                          Comment


                          • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                            This thread is funnier than some of the scripts I've been reading!

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                            • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                              Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                              But I've never met one successful writer who says their way is the only way. I know some who use "we see," and some who don't. Some who hand in scripts over 120, some who would sooner chew off their arm. But they never claim their preference is a standard.
                              Jeff, that entire post of yours (excerpted above) is a best-ever. Thank you.

                              Starting out, I read a few of the better-known screenwriting books. Each one provided a reasonable set of "rules". But each set was presented as "the rules." “I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

                              It took me longer than it should have, but I did eventually realize that format-fundamentalism is a bogus belief system. If only the authors of those books included prefaces with the same basic message of your post.

                              Even if it weren't for those books, and similarly-minded instructors, I think many of us starting out are otherwise so uninformed/uncertain/un-cola about so many aspects of screenwriting that we latch onto whatever we think we understand, whatever we can define in stark terms. And so we cling to "the rules" of formatting. But at some point, we start to let go. At least, that's my experience.

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                              • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                                Originally posted by Aspirant View Post
                                Greg: we've been talking about spaces after periods at the end of sentences (not ellipses or abbreviation marks), so your examples are not relevant. Two spaces after sentence-ending periods may not be "absolutely correct," in a universal sense, but they are grammatically correct and have long been considered appropriate for Courier. The extent to which writers or readers do or should care about this is a separate issue, and one about which there appears to be a reasonable (non-pretend) difference of opinion, even among professionals, though your astronaut friend cannot seem to tolerate it.
                                Which professionals had a difference of opinion on this issue?

                                The professionals who have posted in this thread said it doesn't matter.

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