Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

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    Aspirant
    Member

  • Aspirant
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by NikeeGoddess View Post
    dood -- you really missed the point. this is what Greg said: Anyone who allows one or two spaces after a period within a paragraph to affect their read of a screenplay (or any other document, for that matter) is an idiot. and maybe you don't realize this, but Greg is the program coordinator (or whatever) for the Nicholl Fellowship (the topic of this thread btw) and this statement is telling you and all of us that he does not condone idiot behavior (like knocking a script for the number of spaces after a period) amongst his readers.
    I don't think Greg was limiting his comment to his own readers.

    But this "idiot" stuff is really the crux of it -- that kind of reaction is what prompted me to post on this topic in the first place, after people went nuts over the idea that a contest reader had told a writer that he should put two spaces after a period. First, the assertion was, "Nobody reading a script cares about how many spaces are after a period." Then, after examples were given of readers (and writers) who apparently DO care, the response was, "Well, anybody who cares about the number of spaces after a period is an idiot." I don't think that's a great attitude to have. You might think that a reader who cares about spaces is an idiot, but if it was worth trying to get your script into that person's hands in the first place, don't you want to do everything you can to make him or her favorably disposed to it? If it appears that even a few readers are bothered by a writer using only one space, why not err on the side of caution and use two spaces, which has the added benefit of being grammatically correct? To my knowledge, no one has yet claimed that a reader complained about two spaces -- and even many of the posters (including Greg) who've said it doesn't matter also say that they personally use two spaces -- so there's no downside to going that way. This isn't a "forest for the trees" issue and it's not clinging to a technicality as some kind of a security blanket. It's just respecting the preferences of some readers who adhere to the traditional rule and may be distracted by an error (or what they perceive to be an error) repeated countless times throughout a script. Contrary to Greg's suggestion, people generally don't "allow" themselves to be distracted by something -- they just get distracted. If a writer used blue font, that might be distracting, too, even though it has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the script.

    People obviously can do what they want. But, to me, it all boils down to:

    One space -- becoming more accepted, but might be problematic to a few readers who follow the traditional rule.

    Two spaces -- can't go wrong.

    I believe the choice is clear. But either way, no one's an idiot just for giving it some thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anagram
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by figment View Post
    Uh, clearly, I'm not Greg, Anagram, but Greg already answered this concern/suggestion in post #192... read the last sentence of this first paragraph -- they already include some scripts that have negative first impressions, but the scripts won them over by the end of the read.
    Ok, thanks for pointing that out.

    Leave a comment:

  • NikeeGoddess
    User

  • NikeeGoddess
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Vertigo51 View Post
    To me, calling someone who has an opposing opinion an idiot, is a personal insult. If Greg or anyone else wants to roll that way, it's their right. But, it's just unnecessary.
    dood -- you really missed the point. this is what Greg said:
    Anyone who allows one or two spaces after a period within a paragraph to affect their read of a screenplay (or any other document, for that matter) is an idiot.
    and maybe you don't realize this, but Greg is the program coordinator (or whatever) for the Nicholl Fellowship (the topic of this thread btw) and this statement is telling you and all of us that he does not condone idiot behavior (like knocking a script for the number of spaces after a period) amongst his readers.

    seriously -- you gotta have a firmer grasp of the english language if you want to be a writer.

    Leave a comment:

  • Paul Striver
    Regular

  • Paul Striver
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Vertigo51 View Post
    calling someone who has an opposing opinion an idiot, is a personal insult.
    Perhaps in most cases. In this case, however, it's a simple statement of fact.

    Leave a comment:

  • Richmond Weems
    Member

  • Richmond Weems
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Vertigo51 View Post
    To me, calling someone who has an opposing opinion an idiot, is a personal insult. If Greg or anyone else wants to roll that way, it's their right. But, it's just unnecessary.
    I would agree with you, but...

    It was obviously hyperbolic, and, I think, directed more towards the discussion itself than any particular individual. And I think that by deliberately focusing on "idiot", you are again missing the forest for the trees.

    Basically, as has been said by those who are in a position to know: it doesn't matter.

    I'll stop belaboring the point, though, and agree to disagree.

    HH

    Leave a comment:


  • Vertigo51
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by haroldhecuba View Post
    I don't think it was a personal insult. It was a statement of fact. You obviously run things the way you want to, but if you seriously consider a single space after a period as a mistake, then, yeah, you are missing the forest for the trees.

    HH
    To me, calling someone who has an opposing opinion an idiot, is a personal insult. If Greg or anyone else wants to roll that way, it's their right. But, it's just unnecessary.

    Leave a comment:

  • Richmond Weems
    Member

  • Richmond Weems
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Vertigo51 View Post
    Greg, there's no reason to throw out personal insults. It's just a simple debate.
    I don't think it was a personal insult. It was a statement of fact. You obviously run things the way you want to, but if you seriously consider a single space after a period as a mistake, then, yeah, you are missing the forest for the trees.

    HH

    Leave a comment:


  • Vertigo51
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
    I guess I wasn't clear enough earlier. I'll try again.

    Anyone who allows one or two spaces after a period within a paragraph to affect their read of a screenplay (or any other document, for that matter) is an idiot.

    This is a forest and trees issue. The forest is what matters.

    (BTW, I'm ancient and still tend to insert two spaces after every period when I write anything.)
    Greg, there's no reason to throw out personal insults. It's just a simple debate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vertigo51
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by ATB View Post
    So you would count every single-space following a period as a formatting error? Not an intentional choice, but a mistake.

    Sorry, but that's motherfvcking ridiculous. I hope the next big script doesn't fall in your lap.
    I certainly dont need you to like the way I run things. If you, Greg or anyone else thinks that's motherfvkicking ridiculous, then more power to you.
    Last edited by Vertigo51; 04-16-2012, 02:55 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • figment
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Uh, clearly, I'm not Greg, Anagram, but Greg already answered this concern/suggestion in post #192... read the last sentence of this first paragraph -- they already include some scripts that have negative first impressions, but the scripts won them over by the end of the read.


    Originally posted by gregbeal View Post

    We decided to post comments in 2010 to allow entrants to experience the reactions of readers to individual scripts. It was an attempt to convey the excitement readers describe after encountering a great script. In addition, we wanted to show that Nicholl readers enjoy scripts of every genre, style and storytelling approach. We also found that the comment excerpts occasionally showed a reader overcoming a negative first impression to award a script a high score.


    Why don't we post negative reactions to scripts as well as the positive?

    We feel that lists of problems appearing in scripts can be found at numerous locations on the Web. Pretty much any problem ever described about a script has appeared in one or many of the over 100,000 scripts entered in the competition since 1986.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anagram
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Hi Greg this is just an idea but maybe you could also post comments that have constructive criticism.

    This way it would be both interesting to read as well as educational to writers who haven't entered their script yet (like me ).

    For example a comment that praises the story but also says something like "the writer introduced too many characters too fast" could help other writers refine their scripts.

    We submit better scripts, you receive better scripts, everyone wins.

    Leave a comment:

  • gregbeal
    Member

  • gregbeal
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by iggy View Post
    Of those 2500 scripts, how many would you say are eligible to have comments excerpted on Facebook?

    Thanks!
    About one-seventh of the entries will eventually be read three times in the first round, which nominally makes them "eligible" to have excerpts posted. Since we now have a better feel for how many excerpts will be posted overall, we've narrowed the search and are considering comments from fewer scripts.

    Leave a comment:


  • iggy
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by NikeeGoddess View Post
    iggy - they're ALL eligible.
    Nope.

    Leave a comment:

  • NikeeGoddess
    User

  • NikeeGoddess
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    iggy - they're ALL eligible.

    Leave a comment:


  • iggy
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
    FYI - over 2500 score sheets have been completed thus far in 2012. At this point comments from 20 of those score sheets have been excerpted on the Nicholl Facebook page.
    Of those 2500 scripts, how many would you say are eligible to have comments excerpted on Facebook?

    Thanks!

    Leave a comment:

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