Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

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    JeffLowell
    Member

  • JeffLowell
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Aspirant View Post
    I guess he forgot to run that one by Lowell for approval.
    I use two. I also think one is fine. Because, unlike you, I understand that people can have preferences, all of which are acceptable.

    I get it. It's hard. You've been at this for four years, and haven't earned a penny. It's scary. What if you never make it? Was it the right call, to walk away from a law career?

    And you feel the clock. Six months ago, your managers said they were about to go out with your script. And yet, here you are, being told the same thing. Will this be the time?

    And if it does go out, and doesn't sell... What then? Write another spec? It took six months just to revise this one... So what will it be for the next one? A year? Five years in? Christ.

    Again, I get it. I'd probably cling to two spaces, too. To be able to control something, anything...

    Hey, best of luck. Knock it out of the park.

    Leave a comment:

  • Aspirant
    Member

  • Aspirant
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
    Aspirant, just to be fair: every 3rd snide comment, I feel duty bound to tell you you're full of sh!t. You're on two.
    I'm shaking. Are we counting yours? Because you're way ahead of me.

    I tried to dial things down with you, but you're a classic bully, and whether they agree with you or not, everyone knows it. Just look at what you wrote above. Are you proud of that?

    Grow up.

    Leave a comment:

  • Manchester
    Member

  • Manchester
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Aspirant View Post
    Here's what August writes in his blog:

    Modern typefaces are designed to look best with a single space after the period which ends a sentence. Courier, however, is not such a typeface. As a monospace font, it looks best with two spaces after the period. When writing a script, it's pretty easy to type two spaces sometimes, one space other times. Before printing the "final- draft, you could scroll through the whole document, looking for periods with only one space. But it's much easier to use Find and Replace.
    Footnote: John August has a passion for typefaces. For example, he dislikes Courier's italics font. IIRC, when he needs italics, he switches to some font other than Courier.

    Leave a comment:

  • Aspirant
    Member

  • Aspirant
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by iggy View Post
    Which professionals had a difference of opinion on this issue? The professionals who have posted in this thread said it doesn't matter.
    I don't know Vertigo, but his posts suggest that he is a professional. For all anyone knows, the reader who provided feedback to the OP also is a professional. I'm not saying that he is, but maybe we should ask him before ATB punches him in the throat. I don't believe the OP even indentified the contest he read for. Many pros here haven't even weighed in. And I believe in the other thread some who've said that they don't think it really matters also have said that they use two spaces because it reads better. I also referred to David Trottier and John August earlier. Here's what August writes in his blog:

    Modern typefaces are designed to look best with a single space after the period which ends a sentence. Courier, however, is not such a typeface. As a monospace font, it looks best with two spaces after the period. When writing a script, it's pretty easy to type two spaces sometimes, one space other times. Before printing the "final- draft, you could scroll through the whole document, looking for periods with only one space. But it's much easier to use Find and Replace.

    I guess he forgot to run that one by Lowell for approval.

    Leave a comment:

  • docgonzo
    Member

  • docgonzo
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Question for Greg...

    Not sure if this has already been asked, since I skipped over a number of pages (for obvious reasons), but would it be a good idea to submit a newer, better draft of what I submitted last year? Are there any disadvantages to this or will it be treated as if it were a new entry?

    Of course I'll be submitting a fresh script as well; just wanted to know if this would be worth the money and effort.

    Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • iggy
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Vertigo51 View Post
    Because its not properly formatted. While that is a point that is obviously under debate, I consider proper spacing/formatting to be no different, than say proper spelling: a few errors here and there can be overlooked.

    However, if the same problem happens consistently throughout the script, that makes it obvious that the writer failed to read the script multiple times, in order to correct said mistakes.

    If I recommend a script with 20 spelling or formatting errors to my partners, that makes ME look bad.

    When a job applicant sends out a resume in the real world, it's expected that said resume will be properly formatted with no spelling errors (and yes, I realize there are various ways to format a resume). If an applicant submits a resume riddled with spelling/formatting errors, that resume would most likely be tossed in the trash. Why should a writer submitting a script be treated any differently?
    Hey, so, you're using "partners" in the cowboy sense, right?

    Leave a comment:

  • JeffLowell
    Member

  • JeffLowell
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Aspirant, just to be fair: every 3rd snide comment, I feel duty bound to tell you you're full of sh!t. You're on two.

    Leave a comment:


  • ATB
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Vertigo51 View Post
    Because its not properly formatted. While that is a point that is obviously under debate, I consider proper spacing/formatting to be no different, than say proper spelling: a few errors here and there can be overlooked.

    However, if the same problem happens consistently throughout the script, that makes it obvious that the writer failed to read the script multiple times, in order to correct said mistakes.

    If I recommend a script with 20 spelling or formatting errors to my partners, that makes ME look bad.

    When a job applicant sends out a resume in the real world, it's expected that said resume will be properly formatted with no spelling errors (and yes, I realize there are various ways to format a resume). If an applicant submits a resume riddled with spelling/formatting errors, that resume would most likely be tossed in the trash. Why should a writer submitting a script be treated any differently?
    So you would count every single-space following a period as a formatting error? Not an intentional choice, but a mistake.

    Sorry, but that's motherfvcking ridiculous. I hope the next big script doesn't fall in your lap.

    Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
    Anyone who allows one or two spaces after a period within a paragraph to affect their read of a screenplay (or any other document, for that matter) is an idiot.

    Leave a comment:


  • iggy
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Aspirant View Post
    Greg: we've been talking about spaces after periods at the end of sentences (not ellipses or abbreviation marks), so your examples are not relevant. Two spaces after sentence-ending periods may not be "absolutely correct," in a universal sense, but they are grammatically correct and have long been considered appropriate for Courier. The extent to which writers or readers do or should care about this is a separate issue, and one about which there appears to be a reasonable (non-pretend) difference of opinion, even among professionals, though your astronaut friend cannot seem to tolerate it.
    Which professionals had a difference of opinion on this issue?

    The professionals who have posted in this thread said it doesn't matter.

    Leave a comment:

  • Manchester
    Member

  • Manchester
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
    But I've never met one successful writer who says their way is the only way. I know some who use "we see," and some who don't. Some who hand in scripts over 120, some who would sooner chew off their arm. But they never claim their preference is a standard.
    Jeff, that entire post of yours (excerpted above) is a best-ever. Thank you.

    Starting out, I read a few of the better-known screenwriting books. Each one provided a reasonable set of "rules". But each set was presented as "the rules." “I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

    It took me longer than it should have, but I did eventually realize that format-fundamentalism is a bogus belief system. If only the authors of those books included prefaces with the same basic message of your post.

    Even if it weren't for those books, and similarly-minded instructors, I think many of us starting out are otherwise so uninformed/uncertain/un-cola about so many aspects of screenwriting that we latch onto whatever we think we understand, whatever we can define in stark terms. And so we cling to "the rules" of formatting. But at some point, we start to let go. At least, that's my experience.

    Leave a comment:

  • ewtaylor
    Regular

  • ewtaylor
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    This thread is funnier than some of the scripts I've been reading!

    Leave a comment:

  • odocoileus
    Member

  • odocoileus
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    If the Pope sh*ts in the woods, and there's no one to hear it, are bears Catholic?

    Leave a comment:

  • gregbeal
    Member

  • gregbeal
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Aspirant View Post
    Greg: we've been talking about spaces after periods at the end of sentences (not ellipses or abbreviation marks), so your examples are not relevant. Two spaces after sentence-ending periods may not be "absolutely correct," in a universal sense, but they are grammatically correct and have long been considered appropriate for Courier. The extent to which writers or readers do or should care about this is a separate issue, and one about which there appears to be a reasonable (non-pretend) difference of opinion, even among professionals, though your astronaut friend cannot seem to tolerate it.
    I guess I wasn't clear enough earlier. I'll try again.

    Anyone who allows one or two spaces after a period within a paragraph to affect their read of a screenplay (or any other document, for that matter) is an idiot.

    This is a forest and trees issue. The forest is what matters.

    (BTW, I'm ancient and still tend to insert two spaces after every period when I write anything.)

    Leave a comment:

  • Manchester
    Member

  • Manchester
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by ATB View Post
    So you're saying you might toss a great script because of single-spacing.

    Really?

    Please tell us how this adversely affects the read for you.
    Originally posted by Vertigo51 View Post
    Because its not properly formatted.
    Or because it's not properly spelt.

    Leave a comment:

  • Aspirant
    Member

  • Aspirant
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Greg: we've been talking about spaces after periods at the end of sentences (not ellipses or abbreviation marks), so your examples are not relevant. Two spaces after sentence-ending periods may not be "absolutely correct," in a universal sense, but they are grammatically correct and have long been considered appropriate for Courier. The extent to which writers or readers do or should care about this is a separate issue, and one about which there appears to be a reasonable (non-pretend) difference of opinion, even among professionals, though your astronaut friend cannot seem to tolerate it.

    Leave a comment:

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