Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

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    mrjonesprods
    Member

  • mrjonesprods
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Aspirant, by expressing your misguided opinions, you're creating a false issue. For every script you show me with two spaces after a period, I can show you two with one. This conversation is like debating if people should bold a slug line or if you should use "we see." No one who matters cares. And in this case, if someone got eliminated from a contest for this idiotic reason, it is not a reputable contest or one worth winning anyway. I guarantee if you did one space on your next script your managers wouldn't even notice.

    So often around here you see people, yourself included, perpetuate falsehoods about this business and craft that are just wrong. This type of conjecture is just not helpful. If you don't have practical experience with a subject, you don't have to express an opinion. There are people on this site who do make a living at this.

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  • Aspirant
    Member

  • Aspirant
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by iggy View Post
    Do you really think a contest reader would find an amazing script in their pile of amateur sludge and not advance it because the writer put one space after a period?
    No, I think that's highly unlikely -- and it's not what I said. I said the space issue "may have hurt the OP" in the contest, since the reader specifically mentioned it in his notes. If the OP's script was amazing, then of course something like the spacing would not hold him back. So I would assume that the OP's script was NOT amazing -- at least not in the eyes of this particular reader. But that doesn't make the reader's note meaningless. Perhaps it was a borderline script, and the reader had a hard time getting into it because he was distracted by the improper format. You can say the reader shouldn't be influenced by that, but readers are human beings. Little things like this (and I readily admit, it's a little thing) can make a difference. If the OP had submitted his script on a yellow background, instead of white, that wouldn't have had anything to do with the script quality, either, but it certainly wouldn't have helped his cause.

    Look, I don't lie awake at night worrying about how many spaces go after periods. But I do disagree with people who just wave all this stuff away and say, "None of it matters -- the story is all that counts." It isn't an either/or proposition -- you can write a great script AND ensure that it's technically and grammatically sound. THAT'S the script that has the best chance to succeed.

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  • iggy
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Do you really think a contest reader would find an amazing script in their pile of amateur sludge and not advance it because the writer put one space after a period?

    Leave a comment:

  • Aspirant
    Member

  • Aspirant
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    As usual, I like HH's comment the best.

    One thing I don't understand about this board is why, as soon as you mention something, it's assumed that you're "fixated" on it. Or why, if you talk about proper spelling or grammar or format, or really anything perceived as a "technical" issue, somebody's "head explodes." At the risk of that ...

    Figment: Two spaces may have fallen out of favor, and they're almost never used in electronic communication, but, actually, two spaces is not "wrong." I took "keyboarding" in high school, and that's what they taught, so I'm not relying on some primer from the 40's. I use Movie Magic Screenwriter software, which automatically puts two spaces after periods. Why would the program default to this if it was wrong? David Trottier, who writes "The Screenwriter's Bible," which I consider to be the most authoritative book on screenwriting in existence, uses two spaces after a period in his 5th Edition, which was published in 2010. I believe John August uses two spaces as well. Are these guys wrong, also? The caveat in the article you linked to makes all the difference. One space after a period looks bad in a non-proportional font like Courier; it makes the sentences seem to run together.

    Mr. Jones: Apparently someone cares -- the OP's reader cared. And it may have hurt the OP in a contest he presumably hoped to advance in. Every once in a while I've seen scripts that use one space, and I think they are harder to read. Even if this has nothing to do with the merits of the script itself, why take a chance on irritating your readers? People want to see some white space on the page, not text all crammed together.

    Emily: I'm not saying that a script should be rejected for this reason -- of course not. Perhaps most readers would overlook it. But if there's even a 1% chance that a reader would react negatively to using one space, why not use two spaces (which, whatever the rule for journalism, is correct for Courier scripts), just to avoid the issue? I'm pretty sure my managers would flag it if I turned in my next draft using just one space.

    JoJo: Thanks for the advice on Hollywood. No one is going to think you're old if you use two spaces after a period. But they might think you don't know how to write professionally if you use only one.

    Nikee: Spacing after a period has nothing to do with storytelling. Neither does Courier font. Or standard margins. Or putting scene headings in caps. I've never used Final Draft. If you're saying it defaults to one space, I'm surprised by that. I suspect that it merely permits you to use one space if you want, but I don't know.

    CCC: Hang in there -- I'm done :-)

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  • CColoredClown
    Member

  • CColoredClown
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    We're talkling about the space after a period?! ::head explodes::

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  • Jules
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    I use whatever best lines up my action line to the one that's above it at the time. I like the script to be as uniform as possible.

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  • Richmond Weems
    Member

  • Richmond Weems
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    I use three spaces 'cause I'm a rebel.

    HH

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  • NikeeGoddess
    User

  • NikeeGoddess
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    ridiculous! the entire discussion about it is silly. what's any of that got to do with storytelling?
    and furthermore, when FD scans your script prior to printing it points out spacing errors and formatting errors and such. never once did it correct the spacing after a period. if the number 1 industry standard software doesn't care then why should you?

    Leave a comment:


  • JoJo
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    The two spaces "rule" dates you as a writer - it's the old school way typing was taught.

    The last thing you want to be in Hollywood is thought of as old.

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  • emily blake
    Member

  • emily blake
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    There is nothing wrong with one space after a period. In fact, if you've been brought up in journalistic style, that's the correct way to write your sentences. I've always used only one space because I was a reporter from an early age; I've never had anyone mention it. Anyone that gets fixated on meaningless minutiae like that as a reason for rejecting a script should not be a reader.

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  • mrjonesprods
    Member

  • mrjonesprods
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Aspirant View Post
    Ah, the long shadow of "No Rules" Lowell ...

    But I don't recall Jeff or any of the other pros around here saying that correct grammar doesn't matter.

    I'm not a pro, but I wouldn't have been so quick to dismiss the comment you received as mere "nitpicking" or take it as a sign that the reader simply didn't like your script and was "looking for a reason to dump on it." That's not a "pro" attitude, in my opinion, nor is it likely to get you any closer to becoming one. Although message boards like this one don't allow for it, two spaces are supposed to follow a period at the end of a sentence, and using only one looks bad in standard Courier 12-point font (assuming you haven't dispensed with that annoying little rule, as well). I think it's very possible that your reader was, in fact, genuinely distracted by your using only one space and that others would feel the same way. So it sounds like useful feedback to me.
    It's absolutely an asinine note. I've used one space in everything I've sold or been hired to write. No one cares if it's one or two spaces.

    Btw, was there really a need to add your flip little comment about courier too?

    Leave a comment:


  • figment
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Actually, two spaces is wrong. If you are a certain age and took "typing" as opposed to "keyboarding" in middle school, then they taught you to use two spaces after a period, which is now no longer correct.

    Two spaces looks weird. And is techincally wrong. When trying to save space anyway in a script, those extra spaces here and there can cost you an entire line.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/techno..._invaders.html

    And yes, this atricle states that courier does look different, but, still. When the rest of the world uses one, why use two? Techincally, one is correct.

    Of course, since this board is home to many who like to argue everything to death, please, do what ever you want. I don't care. Really. Run, people, run with the wind.

    Leave a comment:

  • Aspirant
    Member

  • Aspirant
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by Anagram View Post
    I guess I took it at face value at the time.

    A lot of the pro posts here in the last year have impressed upon me that the nitpicking-type rules don't matter.

    If someone's doing that it probably means they dislike your script and are looking for a reason to dump on it.

    Saying I didn't follow industry 'standards' probably meant I'd missed the mark concept/execution wise.

    That was a while ago.

    I've gotten better.
    Ah, the long shadow of "No Rules" Lowell ...

    But I don't recall Jeff or any of the other pros around here saying that correct grammar doesn't matter.

    I'm not a pro, but I wouldn't have been so quick to dismiss the comment you received as mere "nitpicking" or take it as a sign that the reader simply didn't like your script and was "looking for a reason to dump on it." That's not a "pro" attitude, in my opinion, nor is it likely to get you any closer to becoming one. Although message boards like this one don't allow for it, two spaces are supposed to follow a period at the end of a sentence, and using only one looks bad in standard Courier 12-point font (assuming you haven't dispensed with that annoying little rule, as well). I think it's very possible that your reader was, in fact, genuinely distracted by your using only one space and that others would feel the same way. So it sounds like useful feedback to me.

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  • Aspirant
    Member

  • Aspirant
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by ATB View Post
    Or in the throat. Better way to shut someone the fvck up.
    Good idea. That'll teach 'em to try to get you to write properly and avoid distracting grammatical errors in your script.

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  • Aspirant
    Member

  • Aspirant
    replied
    Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by emily blake View Post
    The person who wrote that should be punched in the face.
    Why?

    Leave a comment:

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