Contest Ranking

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  • #16
    Re: Contest Ranking

    Superb Aspirant! Really cleared a lot of confusion. Thanks.
    M.A.G.A.

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    • #17
      Re: Contest Ranking

      Great stuff, Aspirant - As always, a tremendous asset to the forum.

      CP

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      • #18
        Re: Contest Ranking

        Thanks, guys. Glad to be of help.

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        • #19
          Re: Contest Ranking

          Originally posted by justin View Post
          TrackingB I don't get at all. It's expensive to enter and offers nothing at all to anyone except the very top placers - and even they only get the chance of representation, something you'd get from entering Nicholl if the script is good enough.
          Getting read by representation that's actively looking for new clients seems like the best prize there is, if your goal is a career. The biggest prize handed out by any contest pales in comparison to selling a script to a studio.

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          • #20
            Re: Contest Ranking

            Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
            The biggest prize handed out by any contest pales in comparison to selling a script to a studio.
            AMEN.


            ewtaylor

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            • #21
              Re: Contest Ranking

              Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
              Getting read by representation that's actively looking for new clients seems like the best prize there is, if your goal is a career. The biggest prize handed out by any contest pales in comparison to selling a script to a studio.
              Any guess as to how long a rep will stick with a new client if they don't get a quick sale or assignment? Would the rep's interest last beyond the announcement of the next year's contest winners, and then the year after that?

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              • #22
                Re: Contest Ranking

                Anywhere from one week to ten years. All you can do is keep churning out product and making progress.

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                • #23
                  Re: Contest Ranking

                  My point was if your work is good enough you will get representation via Nicholl or going to an agent direct, so why pay TrackingB for the privilege. If your work isn't good enough, the agent will soon drop you, even if you get one via TrackingB.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Contest Ranking

                    There's certainly some wisdom to that. I'd never tell anyone they have to pay money to break in.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Contest Ranking

                      Originally posted by justin View Post
                      My point was if your work is good enough you will get representation via Nicholl or going to an agent direct, so why pay TrackingB for the privilege. If your work isn't good enough, the agent will soon drop you, even if you get one via TrackingB.
                      Nicholl ain't free - all these contests cost money to enter... and since most, according to Greg, enter the Nicholl late/last minute and pay the higher fee, we're all paying for the chance at a shot at getting repped. Those readers deserve to get paid, so there's no free lunch at any contest.

                      "Going to an agent direct" is easier said than done, and usually downright impossible.
                      "Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." -[/SIZE] James R. Cook

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                      • #26
                        Re: Contest Ranking

                        Originally posted by justin View Post
                        My point was if your work is good enough you will get representation via Nicholl or going to an agent direct, so why pay TrackingB for the privilege. If your work isn't good enough, the agent will soon drop you, even if you get one via TrackingB.
                        Look, I understand the resistance to contests--if you can gain representation through connections or cold querying, more power to you. That's the way it should be. But to quibble about the difference in money between one reputable contest versus another seems strange to me. If you've decided that you are going to spend the money, why does the extra $30 or whatever get your panties in a twist? TrackingB has a great track record, and frankly, when I was entering contests, I wasn't entering to place in the quarterfinals--I was entering because I believed I had a good shot at winning the entire contest.

                        This idea that a contest needs to give consolation prizes (by acknowledging "close but no cigar" writers) is, again, befuddling. I placed highly in Nicholl, won several other contests, including TrackingB. With Austin, with the SAME script, I didn't even make it past the first round. And that's okay. Different contests look for different things. That doesn't mean they aren't legitimate. They also offer different things. Nicholl offers A LOT. Austin offers a pass to a wonderful conference and prize money. TrackingB sends your script to a ton of top reps and production companies, and it gets READ. I had several reps wanting to sign me the week before winners were announced. That hasn't happened for me with any other contest. Could I have been signed through different means? Sure. In fact, the week after I signed with my rep, two other reps contacted me for meetings. They had been passed my script through other connections.

                        This is a tough industry. I'm not going rule out any legitimate path to get to where I want to go. And I'm certainly not going to quibble over $30 if I'm deciding to go the contest route.

                        I guess if you're entering a contest to gauge your writing skill, then TrackingB isn't for you. But for people who are confident in their abilities and can't get traction through cold querying or connections, TrackingB is worth a shot.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Contest Ranking

                          Originally posted by onthecusp View Post
                          frankly, when I was entering contests, I wasn't entering to place in the quarterfinals--I was entering because I believed I had a good shot at winning the entire contest.

                          I guess if you're entering a contest to gauge your writing skill, then TrackingB isn't for you. But for people who are confident in their abilities and can't get traction through cold querying or connections, TrackingB is worth a shot.
                          While a few people may enter Bluecat purely for the feedback, I'm sure almost all the people entering Nicholl believe they have a good shot at winning - and 6,500 of them turn out to be wrong - including me last year. Lack of confidence isn't the issue, it's lack of ability. Nicholl allows you to measure this against your peers, TrackingB does not. Nicholl gives 350 people an opening to Agents and Production companies, TrackingB gives this opportunity to only a handful. The standard required to get your feature film made is very high. If you're writing to that standard, you probably will make the Nicholl finals - quarterfinalist (like me last year) are way below the required standard. I guess agents and prodcos request those scripts in the hope of finding a flawed gem they can put right, or a writer they can help develop. If you are wealthy enough to shrug of paying $80 for just the chance of getting an agent, fine. I'm not. If you paid the money and got an agent as a result, good luck to you. The vast majority of people entering TrackingB don't - and unlike with Bluecat and Nicholl, they don't get anything else out of entering either.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Contest Ranking

                            Great thread.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Contest Ranking

                              Since there's been some discussion in this thread about the evaluation of contests, I thought I'd offer my perspective.

                              We seldom (and by seldom I mean close to never) list sales or options on the Nicholl site or elsewhere. One reason is that you can't trust the reality of many sales and options. Sales have appeared in the trades touting a mid-six-figure deal when those dollars will only be paid if the film is produced and the writer retains sole credit; in reality, a small option fee or nothing has actually been paid to the writer. Options are even shakier, often being nothing more than a free shopping agreement.

                              We never list representation on the Nicholl site or elsewhere as an enticement to enter the competition (though we do list representation when the writer wants it to appear on a Nicholl contact list). Personally, I tend to believe writers when they tell me they've signed with WME or Gersh or Brillstein - and while I'm happy for them, I really only care when their reps get them a job or sell a script.

                              We do list produced movie credits, TV series staff positions, published fiction and non-fiction books on the Nicholl pages. These matter most to me as far as demonstrating the success of the program.

                              We also don't list the achievements of finalists, semifinalists and quarterfinalists on the Nicholl pages although we do occasionally mention successful writers who have reached the quarterfinals and beyond on Facebook or in forums such as this. We do so to let entrants know that some talented writers have not won the competition and have still done quite well in film and television.

                              I did come up with another method of comparing competitions - the number of winners who have become WGA members along with those who have produced TV or film credits.

                              Since TrackingB has been mentioned often in this thread, I limited my research to the 2007-2010 period (and left out 2011 as being too recent to matter). From 2007 through 2010, 20 Nicholl fellowships were awarded to 24 writers (there were four collaborative teams).

                              Of those 24 writers, nine are now WGA members (and another may be but his name is common and it could be a different person). Two have written produced features; another has written and directed a doc feature; and another produces a reality TV series. Of these four writers, one is not yet a WGA member as his film was produced independently and premiered at the 2012 Sundance Film Festival.

                              Given that the goal of the Nicholl Fellowships is to identify and encourage talented new screenwriters, you might expect competitions seeking commercial scripts that might sell written by writers who can be sold would have a far better track record with winners and finalists attaining WGA membership and produced credits during the same four year period.

                              I don't believe this to be the case, but I'll leave it to others to analyze the achievements of other competitions.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Contest Ranking

                                Nicholl, Austin, and TrackingB are all solid. Any can jump to the top of the list depending on the year and that's based on what makes it to the finals that year.
                                twitter.com/mbotti

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