Contest Ranking

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  • #31
    Re: Contest Ranking

    Originally posted by gregbeal View Post

    Since TrackingB has been mentioned often in this thread, I limited my research to the 2007-2010 period (and left out 2011 as being too recent to matter). From 2007 through 2010, 20 Nicholl fellowships were awarded to 24 writers (there were four collaborative teams).

    Of those 24 writers, nine are now WGA members (and another may be but his name is common and it could be a different person). Two have written produced features; another has written and directed a doc feature; and another produces a reality TV series. Of these four writers, one is not yet a WGA member as his film was produced independently and premiered at the 2012 Sundance Film Festival.

    Given that the goal of the Nicholl Fellowships is to identify and encourage talented new screenwriters, you might expect competitions seeking commercial scripts that might sell written by writers who can be sold would have a far better track record with winners and finalists attaining WGA membership and produced credits during the same four year period.

    I don't believe this to be the case, but I'll leave it to others to analyze the achievements of other competitions.
    Greg,

    I hope it's clear in my comments, I wasn't knocking your contest. In fact, I implied the Nicholl is the gold standard. I'm a big fan, and I benefited from my placement in the Nicholl a few years ago. Justin's argument, though, was about the validity of Trackingb, and that it was terribly flawed because it didn't have quarter/semi/finalists. My response is that different contests offer different things. Obviously, winning the Nicholl is beyond prestigious and the ultimate goal of any contest junkie.

    However, Trackingb, I think, isn't trying to compete with Nicholl--it's a whole other animal, and should be treated as such. That doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate and good contest. It just depends on your goals. To me, Justin using Nicholl as the measure doesn't work--it's comparing apples to oranges, and my argument is that you can enjoy both. Trackingb never promises to be like the Nicholl. It makes its mandate extremely clear, and lamenting that it's not like the biggest best contest out there is like whining that Little Miss Sunshine doesn't compare well to Star Wars. Um...well, yeah.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Contest Ranking

      Originally posted by onthecusp View Post
      However, Trackingb, I think, isn't trying to compete with Nicholl--it's a whole other animal, and should be treated as such. That doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate and good contest. It just depends on your goals. To me, Justin using Nicholl as the measure doesn't work--it's comparing apples to oranges, and my argument is that you can enjoy both. Trackingb never promises to be like the Nicholl. It makes its mandate extremely clear, and lamenting that it's not like the biggest best contest out there is like whining that Little Miss Sunshine doesn't compare well to Star Wars. Um...well, yeah.
      Yes, but many here and elsewhere persist in comparing contests and rank them on the basis of this or that. The problem is few spell out what this or that is. For instance:

      Originally posted by michaelb View Post
      Nicholl, Austin, and TrackingB are all solid. Any can jump to the top of the list depending on the year and that's based on what makes it to the finals that year.
      By what criteria have Austin or TrackingB jumped to the top of the list in any year? How does "what makes it to the finals that year" serve as a measure?

      By what criteria are the OP's 12 competitions ranked in that particular order? Something concrete? Reputation? Gleanings from internet posts?

      Why are competitions included and others excluded? For instance, Vince Gilligan's career was jumpstarted because he met Mark Johnson after winning the Virginia State competition. How many competitions can claim a winner's achievements equal to those of Gilligan? [BTW, he was a Nicholl semifinalist in the same year.] Academy Award nominees Mark Fergus and Hawk Ostby got their careers going after winning CineStory. How many other competitions have had winners go on to be nominated for Best Screenplay? [Well, Nicholl and Goldwyn come to mind.] Is Goldwyn excluded because it's only open to UC students? It can't be excluded on the basis of winners' achievements.

      My point being that many rank and few offer any concrete analysis for their rankings.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Contest Ranking

        great thread and thoughts throughout... Just an additional note that no one mentioned -- trackingb now does also offer a free subscription to the site to writers who enter 2 scripts in a contest...

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Contest Ranking

          For what it's worth, in 2010-2011, I kept track of the total number of entries in each contest I entered and the percentage that advanced to each successive level of the competition. So here's a ranking of contests based solely on the odds of making the first cut (however designated by the contest), from most selective to least selective.

          Script Pipeline (2011): 3000 entries, 20 F (0.7%)

          TrackingB (2011): 1000 entries, 8 HM/F (0.8%)

          Slamdance (2011): 2000 entries, 100 QF (5.0%)

          Nicholl (2011): 6730 entries, 351 QF (5.2%)

          Final Draft (2010): 3564 entries, 221 QF (6.2%)

          Zoetrope (2010): 2400 entries, 242 QF (10%)

          PAGE (2011): 5554 entries, 589 QF (10.6%) (25% advance to 2nd Round)

          Austin (2011): 5800 entries, 656 2R (Second Rounders) (11.3%)

          Scriptapalooza (2011): 3051 entries, 364 QF (11.9%)

          BlueCat (2010): 2970 entries, 360 QF (12.1%)

          StoryPros (Spring 2011): 985 entries, 197 QF (20%)

          CWA (2011): 2100 entries, 631 PF (Preliminary Finalists) (30%)

          This may be helpful to new writers trying to determine which contests will give them the best chance of an advancement, or simply as a general reference. The total number of entrants also is a rough measure of the contest's reputation. But this info should not be viewed in isolation when considering which are the best contests to enter; all relevant factors should be taken into account.

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          • #35
            Re: Contest Ranking

            In the spirit of Koppelman's "calculate less," I'll say "stop thinking about contests." If you've got a script ready, a big contest comes up, and you've got some money burning a whole in your pocket... go nuts. But this obsession with rankings and prizes and reads and coverage...

            Contests aren't the goal. For the most part, they're money making ventures that have nothing to do with working in Hollywood. The Nicholl track record is impressive. It also accounts for a tiny fraction of people who break in.

            All of your efforts should go into writing that next script that stands out, and then finding a representative to get it out there.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Contest Ranking

              As with "Best of 2011" and "Greatest Films of All Time" lists, I think the information in the OP should be interpreted in the spirit it was offered - a totally subjective list based on personal experience, concrete research and a visceral gut response.

              As a competition newbie I found it extremely helpful. I'd encourage others to offer their own lists, which might include competitions with which Aspirant has not had personal experience.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Contest Ranking

                Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
                Yes, but many here and elsewhere persist in comparing contests and rank them on the basis of this or that. The problem is few spell out what this or that is. For instance:



                By what criteria have Austin or TrackingB jumped to the top of the list in any year? How does "what makes it to the finals that year" serve as a measure?

                By what criteria are the OP's 12 competitions ranked in that particular order? Something concrete? Reputation? Gleanings from internet posts?

                Why are competitions included and others excluded? For instance, Vince Gilligan's career was jumpstarted because he met Mark Johnson after winning the Virginia State competition. How many competitions can claim a winner's achievements equal to those of Gilligan? [BTW, he was a Nicholl semifinalist in the same year.] Academy Award nominees Mark Fergus and Hawk Ostby got their careers going after winning CineStory. How many other competitions have had winners go on to be nominated for Best Screenplay? [Well, Nicholl and Goldwyn come to mind.] Is Goldwyn excluded because it's only open to UC students? It can't be excluded on the basis of winners' achievements.

                My point being that many rank and few offer any concrete analysis for their rankings.
                Easy. Some years the Finalists in Austin and TrackingB are better than Nicholl.

                But, in all fairness, comparing the the finalists of the three is like comparing 7up, Sprite, and Sierra Mist. Sometimes one just tastes a little better.

                And what makes it to the finals is what is widely read around town so can be compared against the others.
                twitter.com/mbotti

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Contest Ranking

                  Originally posted by Rhodi View Post
                  As with "Best of 2011" and "Greatest Films of All Time" lists, I think the information in the OP should be interpreted in the spirit it was offered - a totally subjective list based on personal experience, concrete research and a visceral gut response.

                  As a competition newbie I found it extremely helpful. I'd encourage others to offer their own lists, which might include competitions with which Aspirant has not had personal experience.
                  I certainly didn't mean to demean the spirit in which the info was offered. Just offering my opinion that contest fixation (which I see a lot of) can actually be counterproductive.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Contest Ranking

                    Originally posted by michaelb View Post
                    Some years the Finalists in Austin and TrackingB are better than Nicholl.
                    Is it fair to say that Nicholl seems to seek out promising writers and contests like TrackingB tend to seek out promising scripts?

                    As a manager, which would you rather rep? Writers with great ideas or with great execution?

                    Ideally, every rep wants both. But if it's either/or...?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Contest Ranking

                      Originally posted by michaelb View Post
                      Easy. Some years the Finalists in Austin and TrackingB are better than Nicholl.

                      But, in all fairness, comparing the the finalists of the three is like comparing 7up, Sprite, and Sierra Mist. Sometimes one just tastes a little better.

                      And what makes it to the finals is what is widely read around town so can be compared against the others.
                      Fair enough. Which year? And by what criteria? (I'd like to know how you measure "reads around town.")

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Contest Ranking

                        Originally posted by ATB View Post
                        Is it fair to say that Nicholl seems to seek out promising writers and contests like TrackingB tend to seek out promising scripts?

                        As a manager, which would you rather rep? Writers with great ideas or with great execution?

                        Ideally, every rep wants both. But if it's either/or...?
                        Execution will always win. I sign a writer because they are a great writer and good in a room. As a manager one of my jobs is to help them with ideas.
                        twitter.com/mbotti

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Contest Ranking

                          Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
                          Fair enough. Which year? And by what criteria? (I'd like to know how you measure "reads around town.")
                          Criteria = all the things that a rep looks for in a script. Everything that goes into the execution of a great script.

                          Last year I'd say Nicholl topped trackingb. This year I'd day TrackingB came out on top.

                          Reads around town = finalists of all three are shared amongst execs and reps. When they are announced all the tracking boards are abuzz looking to get their hands on them.
                          twitter.com/mbotti

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Contest Ranking

                            Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                            In the spirit of Koppelman's "calculate less," I'll say "stop thinking about contests." If you've got a script ready, a big contest comes up, and you've got some money burning a whole in your pocket... go nuts. But this obsession with rankings and prizes and reads and coverage...

                            Contests aren't the goal. For the most part, they're money making ventures that have nothing to do with working in Hollywood. The Nicholl track record is impressive. It also accounts for a tiny fraction of people who break in.

                            All of your efforts should go into writing that next script that stands out, and then finding a representative to get it out there.
                            I definitely agree that contests aren't the goal -- they're merely a tool, and only one among many. As I said initially, I think that I'm probably beyond contests now, and even when I regularly entered, I was never obsessive about them. But like everything else I did to try to break in, I took them seriously, and they helped me get read and ultimately land a rep, which IS the goal (or A goal, at any rate). It's easy to minimize contests when you don't need them anymore, but for new writers looking for ways to get traction, contests are one avenue that is open to them. It's not an "either/or" proposition. You can dedicate yourself fully to writing a great script AND then research contests to find the ones with the greatest potential to help you achieve representation, as well as exploring other methods. That's what I did, and it worked for me.

                            Contest rankings are inherently subjective, but comparisons are still useful in helping people decide which ones to enter. That's why I provided this information.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Contest Ranking

                              Originally posted by figment
                              I get where you're coming from, ATB, but ideas are a dime a dozen. Without great execution you aren't going to be a great writer.
                              Originally posted by michaelb View Post
                              Execution will always win. I sign a writer because they are a great writer and good in a room. As a manager one of my jobs is to help them with ideas.
                              That's what I was thinking. It should be execution over concept. But it seems a lot of contests go the other way.

                              That's why I'll always value Nicholl's opinion over any other. Right or wrong.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Contest Ranking

                                Originally posted by michaelb View Post
                                Criteria = all the things that a rep looks for in a script. Everything that goes into the execution of a great script.

                                Last year I'd say Nicholl topped trackingb. This year I'd day TrackingB came out on top.

                                Reads around town = finalists of all three are shared amongst execs and reps. When they are announced all the tracking boards are abuzz looking to get their hands on them.
                                Did a 2011 TrackingB finalist or honorable mention script sell or appear on the Black List?

                                A 2011 Nicholl finalist script did both.

                                Still don't understand how exactly you're measuring reads. You counted every time a script was read or requested? Or appeared on a tracking board? I don't believe you did either.

                                Comment

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