TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

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  • #16
    Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

    TrackingB in two nuts: One) promises representation for writers, chooses winners who already have representation/pros

    Two) Judges are already reps for those winning writers.

    Sham, scam, however you want to call it. They're making money off of handicapped writers

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    • #17
      Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

      Originally posted by UglyShirts View Post
      None of us would be submitting to contests if we didn't feel like our stuff was worth it. It's just that overall, this feels a lot like entering a poetry contest, and losing to Maya Angelou. Like entering a battle of the bands, and watching as the Foo Fighters get crowned the champs. Or maybe more to the point, going on "Jeopardy!", and losing to Alex Trebek, since he already knows the answers, and has played the game before. So what if he works in the industry? He did better than you, so he DESERVES to win, right?
      Anthony has one script that was made into a feature film that had a $10 million dollar budget. Not exactly the Maya Angelou of screenwriting there. And no, I don't know him. I just find it amazing how no matter what, people will complain about something outside their control and blame the contest instead of blaming the one thing that could have gotten them a win - their writing.

      This was a TV contest. Anthony is in the film world so it makes sense if he wants TV exposure. There are a lot of pro feature writers getting into TV which is pissing off a lot of pro TV writers because they're getting pilots instead of them. They say it's not fair, too.

      I don't see anyone from CoC as a judge on the TV side. And I know one judge personally - does that mean I shouldn't submit?

      Plus are we assuming reads weren't anonymous? Because that would be sketchy in and of itself.

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      • #18
        Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

        I've entered both the TB pilot and feature contests with projects that were too rough/not polished enough (yes, I know, stupid, but those deadlines did spur me on to finish). However, I believe even if my projects were more polished/re-written when I entered them, I'm sure they wouldn't have gone anywhere in their contest.

        Having recently read a TB honorable mention feature script, and just looking at the loglines of the winners, it seems to me unless you have a high-concept action based script, and a spare/terse writing style, you're better off skipping trackingb.

        I won't be entering again, but hey, good luck to those who do.
        "Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." -[/SIZE] James R. Cook

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        • #19
          Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

          .
          Last edited by docgonzo; 06-11-2014, 04:00 AM.

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          • #20
            Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

            I think the main beef is this...

            The contest provides 5 people with a chance at representation, and only 5. So If one of those 5 is already a produced and repped writer, well then the contest actually only provided 4 people a chance at a "prize."

            Also, I wouldn't really agree that logically if he wants to move into TV, this is the way to do it. That's kind of what his reps are for. I mean, CoC is a major management co. I don't think Trakingb can do anything they can't.

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            • #21
              Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

              Originally posted by killertv View Post
              Anthony has one script that was made into a feature film that had a $10 million dollar budget. Not exactly the Maya Angelou of screenwriting there.
              I guess it depends on your perspective. To most of us, that's a major goal. Not to mention having another script in pre-production as a follow-up to the first. Which he also has.

              Originally posted by killertv View Post
              I just find it amazing how no matter what, people will complain about something outside their control and blame the contest instead of blaming the one thing that could have gotten them a win - their writing.
              I'll thank you to exclude me from that group. It's not that I think my excrement is odorless, or that my writing is flawless. Far from it. It's that in far too many cases, that kind of thing wouldn't make a difference either way.

              Thing is, my partner and I have entered a lot of contests. And I understand that it's not possible to win them all. In fact, I recently watched with mild amusement while a script that placed a categorical 3rd to our 2nd in one contest then went on to become a finalist in another runoff...One where ours didn't even clear the first round. Them's the breaks, y'know? I don't get too upset about it. Mostly, I chalk it up to experience, and use it as fuel to try harder next time.

              But this sticks in my craw. Mostly because it sends the message that "trying harder next time" might wind up being useless, anyway. Because if the fix is in, and the pros are just going to win prizes they don't really need, then what the hell's the point? And - AGAIN - For TrackingB in particular to promise nothing to winners but the possibility of reads, exposure and promotion...And then to give it to someone for whom all of that stuff is old hat? Someone who is already in a position that any other winner might expect to be a year or so after having won themselves? That's really indefensible, and completely defeats the purpose of the entire contest!

              Originally posted by killertv View Post
              I don't see anyone from CoC as a judge on the TV side.
              Seems like you're splitting hairs a little. Point is, Friemann is still involved with the organization as a judge, and another judge on the TV side works for a division of a company that released his feature.

              Originally posted by killertv View Post
              Plus are we assuming reads weren't anonymous? Because that would be sketchy in and of itself.
              Well, since TrackingB makes such a point of pride out of their super-secretive judging process, we'll never know, will we? Should that make us feel better, either way?

              Look, I knew the long odds going in. And just like every contest, I paid my money, and I took my chances. And I'll even admit that I probably should have read the rules more closely. But on some level, I guess it never occurred to me that TrackingB - of ALL contests - would be open to anyone but amateurs. When the whole point of your particular runoff is to help people get noticed and break in, to the degree where you're pointedly not even offering perfunctory cash prizes, or magazine subscriptions for the runners-up? I think other entrants have a right to get a little bit salty when someone with produced credits, representation, and options waltzes in and takes the trophy. Meanwhile, the rest of us are still on the other side of the glass, watching yet one more supposed avenue of "breaking in" close up in favor of keeping it all within the system, just like it is everywhere else we turn.

              Call me a sore loser if you like, but I've taken other face-plants with good cheer and a "get back on the horse" attitude. But this? It just keeps right on sucking the more I think about it. I've tanked in plenty of contests. Done sorta well in a few others. And of course, there's still plenty more in the pipe. But this is truly and honestly the first time I've felt taken for my entry fee.

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              • #22
                Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

                Originally posted by killertv View Post
                There are a lot of pro feature writers getting into TV which is pissing off a lot of pro TV writers because they're getting pilots instead of them. They say it's not fair, too.

                I don't see anyone from CoC as a judge on the TV side. And I know one judge personally - does that mean I shouldn't submit?

                Plus are we assuming reads weren't anonymous? Because that would be sketchy in and of itself.
                All valid points...but not the macro one that troubles me -- that being having the facts before me which allow making an "informed decision" on whether to enter this contest over another. In this case, the implication is that you as a newbie writer will get the reads and attention you work so hard to attain. Per U.S.'s quote from their site

                Originally posted by UglyShirts View Post
                Their own page for this year's feature contest says:

                "We don't offer any of the usual screenplay contest smoke and mirrors... No coverage from someone being paid $10 per script (please ask Mom). No cash (please ask Grandma) or writing clinics from gurus who have never sold a screenplay (Dad?). What our winners do receive is: INDUSTRY ACCESS AND INDUSTRY READS."
                YAY! Life Ring to the drowning newbie!!! But...the reality is this is open to pro writers who already have the cache. And yet this point is not made clear on TB's promo. To me this starts to smack of getting "sold a bill of goods."

                Maybe I don't wanna be up against these guys -- maybe I believe enough in my writing to go up against them -- but the "behind the curtain" machinations are not transparent enough for me to make that -- "informed decision."

                Furthermore, you said so yourself ...

                Originally posted by killertv View Post

                Plus are we assuming reads weren't anonymous? Because that would be sketchy in and of itself.
                RIGHT! We - don't - know. However we DO know when a red-covered script comes in with the initials CAA on it -- it's only human nature to pay MORE attention to that than the slush pile. Again, as other contests do, are submissions to TB's stripped of any of those signs?

                And U.S.'s nuanced research just gets a little too red-flaggy for me.

                Originally posted by UglyShirts View Post

                Well...No. Especially when you consider the potential conflicts of interest inherent, here. Namely, that Ken Freimann of Circle of Confusion (Jaswinski's management company) is involved with the TrackingB as a judge of the feature spec runoff, and that Chris Mills of Magnet Management (whose distribution arm released "Vanishing on 7th St.") helped judge the TV contest.

                If there's any defense to be made here, I'm really not seeing it. The whole thing just smells fishier than a harborside farmers' market.
                So again, yeah, it would be to TB's benefit to make it - CLEAR - that if you think you got what it takes to go up against a pro leaguer coming in with a nice little ICM stamped cover versus your gmail-bumblef&ck address -- then BRING IT ON!!!

                Otherwise -- best to get thee to the Nicholl, Page or Austin!!!

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                • #23
                  Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

                  Originally posted by YakMan View Post
                  Yeah, this kinda left a baddy tasty in my mouth. As other posters have alluded to -- can you say "ringers"? Closed-club? Known quantity? To use a different analogy -- it's like fronting the cash and time to attend the NFL Combine and find out that they allow free agents to compete. Playahs, with their itinerant posse of advisers and trainers, that have a 90% chance of getting signed anyway but are just looking for the right numbers and team vs. the raw draft choice (me) with nun-uh-that.

                  I have a LOT of respect for what The Insider has done -- but this practice vs. how the Nicholl and others do it has me reconsidering siphoning cash into future contests. If I were he/she -- I'd rethink this.
                  I disagree with this. I think that there should be no limits as to who is able to enter the contest. May the best material win.

                  Also, I think it speaks to the focus of the contest--finding the best material, that they do allow produced and repped writers to enter. After all, the number of entries which they receive and money that they make is probably tied to the number of previously unknown writers that they can claim to discover. I think this hurts them, but I think they should continue doing it this way, because ultimately it's about the best material rising to the top no matter where it comes from.

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                  • #24
                    Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

                    Originally posted by JoJo View Post
                    I've entered both the TB pilot and feature contests with projects that were too rough/not polished enough (yes, I know, stupid, but those deadlines did spur me on to finish). However, I believe even if my projects were more polished/re-written when I entered them, I'm sure they wouldn't have gone anywhere in their contest.

                    Having recently read a TB honorable mention feature script, and just looking at the loglines of the winners, it seems to me unless you have a high-concept action based script, and a spare/terse writing style, you're better off skipping trackingb.

                    I won't be entering again, but hey, good luck to those who do.
                    Did you read "A Country of Strangers"? ABout as far from that as can be. True of many of the finalists, I've read most of them.

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                    • #25
                      Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

                      Originally posted by UglyShirts View Post
                      It's just that overall, this feels a lot like entering a poetry contest, and losing to Maya Angelou.
                      How poetic...?

                      Seriously, I agree with the points you're making about this. (And - I've never entered the TrackingB contest.) Beyond that, based on the details in this thread, I find what happened rather odd.

                      Originally posted by SBScript View Post
                      I disagree with this. I think that there should be no limits as to who is able to enter the contest. May the best material win.
                      I think there's a separate, long-established, all-comers contest for that: The Marketplace. And of more recent vintage: The Black List.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

                        Originally posted by SBScript View Post
                        I disagree with this. I think that there should be no limits as to who is able to enter the contest. May the best material win.

                        Also, I think it speaks to the focus of the contest--finding the best material, that they do allow produced and repped writers to enter. After all, the number of entries which they receive and money that they make is probably tied to the number of previously unknown writers that they can claim to discover. I think this hurts them, but I think they should continue doing it this way, because ultimately it's about the best material rising to the top no matter where it comes from.
                        Again -- for the ten zillionth time -- I have NO problem with this. The problem I have is that they need to make this explicitly clear on their entry rules copy so the entrant can decide whether they want to have a go or not. And if -- there is some instilled bias by not having the contact information "blanked" out.

                        Right now it's come one, come all newbies. We be okay, mon', with taking your cash, yah. Oh, yuh didn' know dee pros be invited to the party as well? So sorry mon'!

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                        • #27
                          Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

                          Originally posted by SBScript View Post
                          I disagree with this. I think that there should be no limits as to who is able to enter the contest. May the best material win.
                          So, if there were a national songwriting contest, one that offered no prize and made no promises other than a "chance" to be heard by the labels, you'd be just fine with Bruno Mars winning? Or, similarly, you'd be just dandy with Rihanna winning American Idol? Hell, why not? They're pretty damn good at what they do. Some might say among the best. Why shouldn't THEIR stuff have just as much of a chance to be recognized?

                          Oh, wait. Maybe it's because they already HAVE been recognized, and will continue to be. They've already "broken in," and currently enjoy the benefits of the only "prizes" those contests offer.

                          Originally posted by SBScript View Post
                          I think this hurts them, but I think they should continue doing it this way
                          I agree that it hurts them. Because a LOT of people are probably going to go the same route that I am, now. Namely, they're going to think twice about entering any further TrackingB contests, which will surely cut into their revenue. But probably not as much as naming a winner who didn't need their "prizes" has cut into their credibility.

                          Originally posted by SBScript View Post
                          ultimately it's about the best material rising to the top no matter where it comes from.
                          Even if "where it comes from" is: "Fairly near the top already"?

                          I can't support that.

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                          • #28
                            Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

                            Originally posted by YakMan View Post
                            Again -- for the ten zillionth time -- I have NO problem with this. The problem I have is that they need to make this explicitly clear on their entry rules copy so the entrant can decide whether they want to have a go or not.
                            Agreed. And they did not. Maybe that's part of the reason why their sooper seekrit judging process is such a snooty point of pride for them. Because a lot of people - myself included - would probably think twice before going up against competitors who are already in the system.

                            It's not like I don't have confidence in my material, either...That's STILL not the point.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

                              Originally posted by UglyShirts View Post
                              So, if there were a national songwriting contest, one that offered no prize and made no promises other than a "chance" to be heard by the labels, you'd be just fine with Bruno Mars winning? Or, similarly, you'd be just dandy with Rihanna winning American Idol? Hell, why not? They're pretty damn good at what they do. Some might say among the best. Why shouldn't THEIR stuff have just as much of a chance to be recognized?

                              Oh, wait. Maybe it's because they already HAVE been recognized, and will continue to be. They've already "broken in," and currently enjoy the benefits of the only "prizes" those contests offer.



                              I agree that it hurts them. Because a LOT of people are probably going to go the same route that I am, now. Namely, they're going to think twice about entering any further TrackingB contests, which will surely cut into their revenue. But probably not as much as naming a winner who didn't need their "prizes" has cut into their credibility.



                              Even if "where it comes from" is: "Fairly near the top already"?

                              I can't support that.
                              That's fine. But, let's try and be a little more realistic. Your Bruno Mars/Rihanna comparison is way too far out there to take seriously. It's not like Scott Rosenberg is going to enter Tracking B. I think that this sort of scenario as we've just seen with Jaswinski will not be repeated very often, if at all.

                              And, heck, maybe he was really tired of his reps telling him not to try and crack T.V., maybe he was so frustrated at not making any progress that he figured he'd take a shot at TrackingB. Why shouldn't he be able to pursue his dreams just like anyone else?

                              All that being said, I'll repeat that I doubt this will happen very often. If it does, maybe they will look at their mission and change the rules.

                              Finally, I do think that they should be transparent about wether or not submissions are read without names attached. That would be a problem because it would skew expectations.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: TrackingB TV Pilot Contest results posted...

                                Originally posted by SBScript View Post
                                If it does, maybe they will look at their mission and change the rules.



                                Originally posted by SBScript View Post
                                Finally, I do think that they should be transparent about wether or not submissions are read without names attached. That would be a problem because it would skew expectations.

                                Comment

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