Nicholl 2015...

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    cp6267a
    New User

  • cp6267a
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by BKDodger View Post
    I can understand GlitterKitty's frustration. It strikes me as odd so many writers in here seem to lack a character trait I consider the most important for any strong writer - empathy.

    First off, the Nicholl itself has acknowledged the comments as offensive and inappropriate. There are thoughtful critiques as to why on the actual Facebook page. Rather than regurgitate the words of others, I urge you all to check it out/do some research if you are truly interested in this topic.

    As a woman, I've gotten the following notes (just to be clear, these are not from the Nicholl)

    -Be different by not writing stories about women/women's issues
    -Don't write comedy. Your gender isn't good at that.
    -Don't smile so much when you take meetings. You're young and attractive and it makes people not take you as seriously.

    Have any men in here gotten those notes or been told not to write about men? ::crickets chirp::

    I'm proud of Rachel for taking a stand and of the Nicholl for acknowledging that the dialogue was not constructive in any way. The only way to get rid of the dark is to shine a light on it.

    Also noteworthy: Of the 160 screenwriters credited for the 100 films nominated for an Oscar between 2005 and 2014, only 18 were women. Those women contributed to 16 films-or 16 percent of nominated screenplays-two of which won Oscars (Juno and Brokeback Mountain).

    If you think the above is because female writers are only 16% as good as men, you are sadly mistaken. The pervasive idea that women's stories are less worthy of receiving cultural prominence needs to end.
    Excellent comment.

    Leave a comment:


  • BKDodger
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by DarkKnight(OfTheSoul)
    They have nothing to apologize for. This is a poor precedent to set. Spineless move.
    So say you. They don't feel that way. Many of us don't.

    There's nothing spineless about apologizing when you are wrong. On the contrary, it takes courage.

    Leave a comment:


  • BKDodger
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by GlitterKitty View Post
    Yeah know, I had this whole post written up trying to explain how as a woman and full-time, professional story analyst I found these notes to be wholly unprofessional and in the case of the last sentence, clearly and obviously sexist - regardless of both the reader's gender and the screenwriter's gender. But I'm pretty sure anything I say here will be chalked up as be being a whiny, thin-skinned little girl who just can't handle being in a man's world. So I'm just going to take my uppity little ladyself elsewhere and hope that someday you fellas are able to see beyond your own worldviews.
    I can understand GlitterKitty's frustration. It strikes me as odd so many writers in here seem to lack a character trait I consider the most important for any strong writer - empathy.

    First off, the Nicholl itself has acknowledged the comments as offensive and inappropriate. There are thoughtful critiques as to why on the actual Facebook page. Rather than regurgitate the words of others, I urge you all to check it out/do some research if you are truly interested in this topic.

    As a woman, I've gotten the following notes (just to be clear, these are not from the Nicholl)

    -Be different by not writing stories about women/women's issues
    -Don't write comedy. Your gender isn't good at that.
    -Don't smile so much when you take meetings. You're young and attractive and it makes people not take you as seriously.

    Have any men in here gotten those notes or been told not to write about men? ::crickets chirp::

    I'm proud of Rachel for taking a stand and of the Nicholl for acknowledging that the dialogue was not constructive in any way. The only way to get rid of the dark is to shine a light on it.

    Also noteworthy: Of the 160 screenwriters credited for the 100 films nominated for an Oscar between 2005 and 2014, only 18 were women. Those women contributed to 16 films-or 16 percent of nominated screenplays-two of which won Oscars (Juno and Brokeback Mountain).

    If you think the above is because female writers are only 16% as good as men, you are sadly mistaken. The pervasive idea that women's stories are less worthy of receiving cultural prominence needs to end.

    Leave a comment:


  • P-jay
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by GlitterKitty View Post
    I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here. Do you think that female writers just need to tolerate misogyny and double standards as a part of the Industry? Because nothing changes if that happens. If we're all so afraid of being labelled "uppity" or "troublemakers" then this will continue to be a white dude's game.
    No, I think the situation was handled badly. The writer should have contacted Nicholl privately and expressed her concern. Then Nicholl should have acted appropriately. Instead, this went public after hours and everyone reacted before anyone with real authority at Nicholl had the opportunity to respond and take steps.

    The writers who took this situation and responded in an over-the-top manner seemed more interested in making trouble than they were in genuinely seeing the problem corrected. This is why I think it is more about writers upset with their comments seeking an outlet for their hurt feelings and grabbing any excuse that makes their outburst seem appropriate rather than childish. They're behavior was immature and unprofessional. This is not the way to promote gender equality and respect.

    Leave a comment:

  • cp6267a
    New User

  • cp6267a
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    I mean, American Pie is a raunchy sex comedy, but I never saw any comments like: there's not much story here, but the dudes are hot so it at least makes for a good porno. And if I did see a comment like that, I would find it pretty condescending. The fact that this is a comedy about women adds another layer to the dismissiveness, because stories about women are often trivialized in ways that stories about men are not (example: using phrases like chick-flicks/chick-lit as though women are some kind of niche audience)

    Leave a comment:

  • StoryWriter
    Member

  • StoryWriter
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    On the other hand.

    If this same reviewer had read (for example) "While You Were Sleeping" and had made the suggestion: "That Lucy chick seems hot. Why don't you consider rewriting this as a porno?"

    Then I have to say, he (or she) has a real problem and just might be a sexist.

    Leave a comment:

  • StoryWriter
    Member

  • StoryWriter
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by cp6267a View Post
    It's amazing how people always seem to want to play devil's advocate for someone who makes some racist/sexist/ignorant comment (it was probably meant as a joke!), while at the same time assuming the worst of the person who takes offense to that comment (they're probably just trying to get attention!). It's just... interesting who people think deserves the benefit of the doubt in situations like this.
    OK. Let me take another stab at it.

    A woman writes a sex comedy (let's forget the euphemism "raunchy" for the time being) and is offended that a reviewer (who gave it a positive review) suggested it could be rewritten (maybe as a joke) as a porno, some of which, I suppose, could as also be called "sex comedies" (and/or raunchy if you prefer).

    So, essentially a reviewer (especially if he's a man) is supposed to review a "sex comedy" and leave out any reference to (you know) the sex part, or risk being called a "sexist"? Is that the gist of it?

    I mean -- think about it -- is there any comment he could make about the sex while reviewing this sex comedy, that would not be construed as "sexist" by someone, somewhere out there?

    Because as we all know, women (being non-sexist) write "serious and compassionate" sex comedies, whereas men (being sexist pigs) can only write "frivolous and misogynistic" sex comedies.

    Leave a comment:

  • boudiccarules
    User

  • boudiccarules
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
    Now let's see if I can get this straight.

    A women submitted a script, which she describes as a "broad, raunchy, female-driven comedy", but it's sexism if the reviewer doesn't treat it with respect and dignity?

    OK.
    I gotta agree here. First of all, it was a POSITIVE read. Secondly, you write a 'raunchy, female-driven' comedy, and then you get upset when the reader (who gave you that positive read) makes a comment about 'porn' and that the ladies in the script sound 'hot'? Sorry folks, does not sound sexist to me, and I'm female. Sounds like the writer wanted to create controversy to get read, in my opinion. "The only bad publicity is NO publicity". Hope it doesn't backfire on her.

    Leave a comment:

  • cp6267a
    New User

  • cp6267a
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    I don't like pile-ons, but since the Nicholl's official position seems to agree that the comments were offensive, I'm just not sure why there's a need to try to justify them.

    Leave a comment:

  • AE35-Unit
    Regular

  • AE35-Unit
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by DarkKnight(OfTheSoul)
    ugh. that's really unfortunate to hear. this whole situation is really a non incident. it reminds of the recent, insightful remarks Jerry Seinfeld made about not going to college campuses anymore because the kids are too easily offended and self-righteous, etc.
    Check out the article link Ronaldinho posted a few back. Same thing you're saying.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon Jay
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by cp6267a View Post
    It's amazing how people always seem to want to play devil's advocate for someone who makes some racist/sexist/ignorant comment (it was probably meant as a joke!), while at the same time assuming the worst of the person who takes offense to that comment (they're probably just trying to get attention!). It's just... interesting who people think deserves the benefit of the doubt in situations like this.
    Judging from the Facebook comments most are siding with the writer. The Mashable article was clearly on her side, omitting key details like the blind read set-up of the Nicholl. Meanwhile Twitter has gone into full-on #burnthewitch mode against the reader, who apparently needs to be fired, killed, then fired again just to be sure.

    I may be wrong but I wonder if some here are trying to add a little perspective because elsewhere the debate's been so one-sided against the Academy/Nicholl people.

    Leave a comment:

  • cp6267a
    New User

  • cp6267a
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    It's amazing how people always seem to want to play devil's advocate for someone who makes some racist/sexist/ignorant comment (it was probably meant as a joke!), while at the same time assuming the worst of the person who takes offense to that comment (they're probably just trying to get attention!). It's just... interesting who people think deserves the benefit of the doubt in situations like this.

    Leave a comment:

  • AE35-Unit
    Regular

  • AE35-Unit
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    They did, Opie.

    Leave a comment:


  • opie
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
    But we can not assume from the fact that this particular raunchy script didn't land with this particular reader that sexism is why. Maybe he or she liked other raunchy female-driven scripts, and just didn't like this one.
    FWIW, the reader gave this script a positive score, according to Nicholl.

    Leave a comment:

  • Ronaldinho
    Member

  • Ronaldinho
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by GlitterKitty View Post
    Yeah know, I had this whole post written up trying to explain how as a woman and full-time, professional story analyst I found these notes to be wholly unprofessional and in the case of the last sentence, clearly and obviously sexist - regardless of both the reader's gender and the screenwriter's gender. But I'm pretty sure anything I say here will be chalked up as be being a whiny, thin-skinned little girl who just can't handle being in a man's world. So I'm just going to take my uppity little ladyself elsewhere and hope that someday you fellas are able to see beyond your own worldviews.
    Well, you know, that's a shame, because I'd actually like to hear what you claim you were going to offer. I might not agree with it, but I'd like to hear it.

    It's certainly more useful than calling all of us sexist, especially when several of us have tried to articulate clearly why we think it isn't, while leaving open the possibility that we might be wrong.

    Accusing me of being a sexist who will call you names rather than discuss the issue rationally, because I'm a man, I guess, strikes me as pretty damn sexist itself.

    Leave a comment:

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