Nicholl 2015...

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    GlitterKitty
    New User

  • GlitterKitty
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Yeah know, I had this whole post written up trying to explain how as a woman and full-time, professional story analyst I found these notes to be wholly unprofessional and in the case of the last sentence, clearly and obviously sexist - regardless of both the reader's gender and the screenwriter's gender. But I'm pretty sure anything I say here will be chalked up as be being a whiny, thin-skinned little girl who just can't handle being in a man's world. So I'm just going to take my uppity little ladyself elsewhere and hope that someday you fellas are able to see beyond your own worldviews.

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  • StoryWriter
    Member

  • StoryWriter
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Now let's see if I can get this straight.

    A women submitted a script, which she describes as a "broad, raunchy, female-driven comedy", but it's sexism if the reviewer doesn't treat it with respect and dignity?

    OK.

    Leave a comment:

  • AE35-Unit
    Regular

  • AE35-Unit
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    I was accused of misogyny once. It shocked me more than offended because I had no idea I was doing it to this character. Then I got pissed and re-read it and knew they were right. Then I felt like crap and never did it again.

    We've all written the perfect script... in our minds. I think this woman believed in her mind that her script was infallible, saw that - admittedly dickish comment - and simply took it too personal. It happens to everybody.

    But where she messed up was how she handled it. If you want to aspire to be a pro in this business, you don't run to Mashable unless you simply want the publicity to draw attention to your script and screw Nicholl because it didn't advance to the semi's.

    I agree 100% that sexism is a problem in the industry. But what she did accomplishes nothing except they probably won't give out notes again to anybody. . . because of her.

    I'm gonna laugh my keester off if they announce that reader is a woman.

    Leave a comment:

  • Ronaldinho
    Member

  • Ronaldinho
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    I'm always hesitant to tell women that they're NOT experiencing sexism. As a dude, I need to be aware that I'm not always in the best position to make that call.

    That being said, given that the reader didn't know the gender of the writer, we need to be a little cautious about crying sexism.

    It's totally possible and maybe even probable that a sexism would make a reader less open to a raunchy female-perspective script than a raunchy male-perspective script. But we can not assume from the fact that this particular raunchy script didn't land with this particular reader that sexism is why. Maybe he or she liked other raunchy female-driven scripts, and just didn't like this one. (I know of at least one other raunchy female-perspective script which advanced to the semis; would our opinion on this reader change if we learned he or she graded that other script highly?)

    Does he or she make similar jokey comments about male-led scripts which don't work?

    (As a former fellow, I feel sympathetic to the Nicholl family about this dust-up, but I obviously am not speaking for Greg or anyone at the Academy).

    It's wrong to only judge female characters by their looks. But if you find them wanting in those other categories, it's not wrong to say so. To say "there's nothing worthwhile about this character but her looks," is a problem if you're talking about a three-dimensional character with other good qualities, but not if the character is flat and uninteresting and doesn't actually have other interesting qualities. Sexism can cause people to see the latter when they're looking at the former, but sometimes the characters are just poorly drawn.

    Making a comparison to porn strikes me as offensive to ANY writer from a creative standpoint, but not necessarily sexist (not unless you assume that all women are inherently pearl-clutching porn-haters, which is clearly not the case, even if men do consume more pornography than women).

    So my gut reaction reading the entirety of the note is that the writer is having an egoic reaction to negative comments about the script, of the kind we're all familiar with when we hear our work described unfavorably, and lashing out.

    Calling for multiple firings for all this seems like an extension of the kind behavior described by this article.

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  • GlitterKitty
    New User

  • GlitterKitty
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by P-jay View Post
    I doubt it because while the script might get attention, the writer has also brought attention to her willingness to handle a difficult situation badly and stir up as much trouble as she can. Who needs that?
    I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here. Do you think that female writers just need to tolerate misogyny and double standards as a part of the Industry? Because nothing changes if that happens. If we're all so afraid of being labelled "uppity" or "troublemakers" then this will continue to be a white dude's game.

    Leave a comment:


  • P-jay
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
    ... I've been cut open and laid bare before too, but if you're gonna play in Hollywood you better have a thick skin and learn from both the positives and the negatives from professional readers. If you're smart you will consider them allies instead of enemies...
    You're right. It might help if writers realized that notes are intended to show us ways to improve our scripts. There's always going to be a sting, but taking out hurt feelings on the note givers is not how to respond. Even my worst note from a Nicholl judge (one comment in one set of notes), which was flat out wrong, showed me that I needed to make some earlier scenes stronger so this misinterpretation couldn't occur. You not only need to listen to the notes, you need to interpret them.

    Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
    Personally, I wouldn't blame Nicholl one bit if they choose not to do it next year. But it would be a shame if they decide not to... especially for talented writers you.

    And good luck to you.
    Thank you. There are a lot of talented writers on this board, yourself included. Good luck to you too.

    Leave a comment:

  • AE35-Unit
    Regular

  • AE35-Unit
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by P-jay View Post
    I doubt it because while the script might get attention, the writer has also brought attention to her willingness to handle a difficult situation badly and stir up as much trouble as she can. Who needs that?
    If I was a rep I'd be scared to death of her. But she'll get reads out of it.

    Leave a comment:

  • AE35-Unit
    Regular

  • AE35-Unit
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    You're 100% correct P-Jay. Every single comment I got was thoughtful and critically aware of things I'd never considered like "better throughline". Based on my reader comments, I could tell they all had been doing it for quite some time. I've been cut open and laid bare before too, but if you're gonna play in Hollywood you better have a thick skin and learn from both the positives and the negatives from professional readers. If you're smart you will consider them allies instead of enemies no matter their delivery. I know Nicholl was concerned about getting bombarded with negatives on letting people see their comments, and dealing with that sort of thing takes away from their time executing the competition.

    Personally, I wouldn't blame Nicholl one bit if they choose not to do it next year because I wouldn't want the hassle either. But it would be a shame if they decide not to... especially for talented writers you.

    And good luck to you.

    Leave a comment:


  • P-jay
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by LateNightWriter View Post
    ...

    Like AE35-Unit said, this is possibly the best publicity that writer could have received. No doubt she's getting lots of calls for that script right now.

    Late Night Writer
    I doubt it because while the script might get attention, the writer has also brought attention to her willingness to handle a difficult situation badly and stir up as much trouble as she can. Who needs that?

    Leave a comment:


  • P-jay
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Losing the Nicholl comments is my biggest concern. I am not working with much money and couldn't afford professional notes. Nor am I in any writing group. I handed my script around to friends and then questioned them carefully about everything. The Nicholl notes come from professional readers who are also writers. Feedback won't get any better than this or any cheaper.

    I suspect a lot of the rants came out of a need to vent by writers who weren't happy with the feedback. This just gave them an opening.

    I really hope a handful of writers won't destroy this valuable resource Nicholl has given us to improve our writing.

    Leave a comment:

  • AE35-Unit
    Regular

  • AE35-Unit
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Obviously.

    Leave a comment:


  • slupo
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
    Well Slupo, considering I paid 40 whole dollars to read six stellar comments from Nicholl readers, and paid 125$ to get shot down on the same script by two Blacklist readers, I wasn't sure what you meant about 'quality' of readers.
    I have no idea how you're turning this into a thing about the blacklist.

    Leave a comment:

  • AE35-Unit
    Regular

  • AE35-Unit
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Well Slupo, considering I paid 40 whole dollars to read six stellar comments from Nicholl readers, and paid 125$ to get shot down on the same script by two Blacklist readers who didn't know which end was up, I wasn't sure what you meant about 'quality' of readers.
    AE35-Unit
    Regular
    Last edited by AE35-Unit; 08-25-2015, 10:31 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon Jay
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    My notes weren't professional - that's to say they weren't written in a formal structured way, had fairly loose grammar/spelling and made comments about a real-life person's private life (as mentioned before, my script features a real person). But that's fine because I'm a grown-up and get how these things work.

    What was clear - scrappy or no - was that the readers had read every word of the script, which is about as much as you can ask for.

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  • slupo
    replied
    Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
    Are you talking Nicholl or Blacklist?
    Why would I be talking about the Blacklist?

    Leave a comment:

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