Nicholl 2015...

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  • Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by cp6267a View Post
    It's amazing how people always seem to want to play devil's advocate for someone who makes some racist/sexist/ignorant comment (it was probably meant as a joke!), while at the same time assuming the worst of the person who takes offense to that comment (they're probably just trying to get attention!). It's just... interesting who people think deserves the benefit of the doubt in situations like this.
    OK. Let me take another stab at it.

    A woman writes a sex comedy (let's forget the euphemism "raunchy" for the time being) and is offended that a reviewer (who gave it a positive review) suggested it could be rewritten (maybe as a joke) as a porno, some of which, I suppose, could as also be called "sex comedies" (and/or raunchy if you prefer).

    So, essentially a reviewer (especially if he's a man) is supposed to review a "sex comedy" and leave out any reference to (you know) the sex part, or risk being called a "sexist"? Is that the gist of it?

    I mean -- think about it -- is there any comment he could make about the sex while reviewing this sex comedy, that would not be construed as "sexist" by someone, somewhere out there?

    Because as we all know, women (being non-sexist) write "serious and compassionate" sex comedies, whereas men (being sexist pigs) can only write "frivolous and misogynistic" sex comedies.
    "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

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    • Re: Nicholl 2015...

      On the other hand.

      If this same reviewer had read (for example) "While You Were Sleeping" and had made the suggestion: "That Lucy chick seems hot. Why don't you consider rewriting this as a porno?"

      Then I have to say, he (or she) has a real problem and just might be a sexist.
      "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

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      • Re: Nicholl 2015...

        I mean, American Pie is a raunchy sex comedy, but I never saw any comments like: there's not much story here, but the dudes are hot so it at least makes for a good porno. And if I did see a comment like that, I would find it pretty condescending. The fact that this is a comedy about women adds another layer to the dismissiveness, because stories about women are often trivialized in ways that stories about men are not (example: using phrases like chick-flicks/chick-lit as though women are some kind of niche audience)

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        • Re: Nicholl 2015...

          Originally posted by GlitterKitty View Post
          I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here. Do you think that female writers just need to tolerate misogyny and double standards as a part of the Industry? Because nothing changes if that happens. If we're all so afraid of being labelled "uppity" or "troublemakers" then this will continue to be a white dude's game.
          No, I think the situation was handled badly. The writer should have contacted Nicholl privately and expressed her concern. Then Nicholl should have acted appropriately. Instead, this went public after hours and everyone reacted before anyone with real authority at Nicholl had the opportunity to respond and take steps.

          The writers who took this situation and responded in an over-the-top manner seemed more interested in making trouble than they were in genuinely seeing the problem corrected. This is why I think it is more about writers upset with their comments seeking an outlet for their hurt feelings and grabbing any excuse that makes their outburst seem appropriate rather than childish. They're behavior was immature and unprofessional. This is not the way to promote gender equality and respect.

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          • Re: Nicholl 2015...

            Originally posted by GlitterKitty View Post
            Yeah know, I had this whole post written up trying to explain how as a woman and full-time, professional story analyst I found these notes to be wholly unprofessional and in the case of the last sentence, clearly and obviously sexist - regardless of both the reader's gender and the screenwriter's gender. But I'm pretty sure anything I say here will be chalked up as be being a whiny, thin-skinned little girl who just can't handle being in a man's world. So I'm just going to take my uppity little ladyself elsewhere and hope that someday you fellas are able to see beyond your own worldviews.
            I can understand GlitterKitty's frustration. It strikes me as odd so many writers in here seem to lack a character trait I consider the most important for any strong writer - empathy.

            First off, the Nicholl itself has acknowledged the comments as offensive and inappropriate. There are thoughtful critiques as to why on the actual Facebook page. Rather than regurgitate the words of others, I urge you all to check it out/do some research if you are truly interested in this topic.

            As a woman, I've gotten the following notes (just to be clear, these are not from the Nicholl)

            -Be different by not writing stories about women/women's issues
            -Don't write comedy. Your gender isn't good at that.
            -Don't smile so much when you take meetings. You're young and attractive and it makes people not take you as seriously.

            Have any men in here gotten those notes or been told not to write about men? ::crickets chirp::

            I'm proud of Rachel for taking a stand and of the Nicholl for acknowledging that the dialogue was not constructive in any way. The only way to get rid of the dark is to shine a light on it.

            Also noteworthy: Of the 160 screenwriters credited for the 100 films nominated for an Oscar between 2005 and 2014, only 18 were women. Those women contributed to 16 films-or 16 percent of nominated screenplays-two of which won Oscars (Juno and Brokeback Mountain).

            If you think the above is because female writers are only 16% as good as men, you are sadly mistaken. The pervasive idea that women's stories are less worthy of receiving cultural prominence needs to end.

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            • Re: Nicholl 2015...

              Originally posted by DarkKnight(OfTheSoul)
              They have nothing to apologize for. This is a poor precedent to set. Spineless move.
              So say you. They don't feel that way. Many of us don't.

              There's nothing spineless about apologizing when you are wrong. On the contrary, it takes courage.

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              • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                Originally posted by BKDodger View Post
                I can understand GlitterKitty's frustration. It strikes me as odd so many writers in here seem to lack a character trait I consider the most important for any strong writer - empathy.

                First off, the Nicholl itself has acknowledged the comments as offensive and inappropriate. There are thoughtful critiques as to why on the actual Facebook page. Rather than regurgitate the words of others, I urge you all to check it out/do some research if you are truly interested in this topic.

                As a woman, I've gotten the following notes (just to be clear, these are not from the Nicholl)

                -Be different by not writing stories about women/women's issues
                -Don't write comedy. Your gender isn't good at that.
                -Don't smile so much when you take meetings. You're young and attractive and it makes people not take you as seriously.

                Have any men in here gotten those notes or been told not to write about men? ::crickets chirp::

                I'm proud of Rachel for taking a stand and of the Nicholl for acknowledging that the dialogue was not constructive in any way. The only way to get rid of the dark is to shine a light on it.

                Also noteworthy: Of the 160 screenwriters credited for the 100 films nominated for an Oscar between 2005 and 2014, only 18 were women. Those women contributed to 16 films-or 16 percent of nominated screenplays-two of which won Oscars (Juno and Brokeback Mountain).

                If you think the above is because female writers are only 16% as good as men, you are sadly mistaken. The pervasive idea that women's stories are less worthy of receiving cultural prominence needs to end.
                Excellent comment.

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                • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                  I can't imagine that any writer, female or male, could fail to be offended by the sarcastic tone of these comments. And the sexism of the final sentence makes matters even worse.

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                  • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                    Originally posted by AE35-Unit
                    Look. It's just a contest. But it's the most prestigious screenplay contest in the world. Careers are launched because of it. Real careers. And that you cannot deny. I'm a semifinalist in it. And never in a million years did I ever imagine I would be. And I can honestly tell you, from the bottom of my heart, that if I had not advanced from the quarters because of a crappy read, I most certainly would not have gone out and attempted to trash Nicholl. Period.

                    Because all that shows is immaturity and lack of RESPECT for an organization that's one goal is to help foster new writer's future careers.

                    My granddaddy always told me: "Son. Never sh*t in the same house you eat in."

                    And that is PRECISELY what this young lady did.
                    Congrats on your semifinalist status. Seriously, that's awesome and quite an achievement.

                    Have to disagree though about the respect factor. When something is truly wrong, you have to speak up and bring it to light. How many reverential Hollywood films have been made about whistle-blowers? The Nicholl are the big dogs - they can handle the criticism and change. Or not. The ball is in their court.

                    At the very worst, she'll never win an Oscar. Many of us will never win an Oscar. Which I'm fine with, The Beatles never won a Grammy when they were still a band.

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                    • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                      Originally posted by DarkKnight(OfTheSoul)
                      It also takes courage to stand your ground when the masses want to burn you at the stake. I do not believe Nicholl did anything wrong.
                      But they do think the comments were wrong and stated as such. You're free to ride a horse backwards, but that doesn't mean you're facing the right direction.

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                      • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                        Originally posted by P-jay View Post
                        No, I think the situation was handled badly. The writer should have contacted Nicholl privately and expressed her concern. Then Nicholl should have acted appropriately.
                        This.

                        Personally, I think it's beside the point if the review was sexist because the quoted "porn" line was entirely inappropriate in any sort of professional situation. But, that said, the immediate rush to the public forum of social media is unprofessional as well.

                        Now, had she contacted Nicholl privately - and I think they should have been made aware of the issue - and gotten no response or the sort of response she initially received, then I can see considering airing the issue publicly.
                        tinlizzie
                        Regular
                        Last edited by tinlizzie; 08-25-2015, 01:59 PM. Reason: grammar fail

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                        • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                          Originally posted by BKDodger View Post
                          Congrats on your semifinalist status. Seriously, that's awesome and quite an achievement.

                          Have to disagree though about the respect factor. When something is truly wrong, you have to speak up and bring it to light. How many reverential Hollywood films have been made about whistle-blowers? The Nicholl are the big dogs - they can handle the criticism and change. Or not. The ball is in their court.

                          At the very worst, she'll never win an Oscar. Many of us will never win an Oscar. Which I'm fine with, The Beatles never won a Grammy when they were still a band.
                          Thanks. The Beatles? Who the hell are they?
                          We gain our innocence by taking yours.

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                          • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                            Originally posted by DarkKnight(OfTheSoul)
                            Imagine harder. I'm not offended by them.

                            As a reader, what if I'm offended by the title of the script "The Big D" and then also by the first scene, which according to Nicholl is pretty raunchy?

                            There's no offense to be taken here on either side.
                            As a reader, your job would be to ignore your offense and attempt to evaluate from a neutral viewpoint (unless the material is so extreme that any normal standard would find it offensive).

                            And, as I said before, sexist or not, the final comment in the notes was inappropriate at the very least.

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                            • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                              Originally posted by DarkKnight(OfTheSoul)
                              Imagine harder. I'm not offended by them.

                              As a reader, what if I'm offended by the title of the script "The Big D" and then also by the first scene, which according to Nicholl is pretty raunchy?

                              There's no offense to be taken here on either side.
                              I wasn't offended by them either. Maybe the reader was trying to match the "tone" of her writing, and that's why she took offense.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                                Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
                                Thanks. The Beatles? Who the hell are they?
                                Thank god for the Beatles. Without them, we'd never have Wings.....

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