Nicholl 2015...

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  • Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by BKDodger View Post
    It strikes me as odd so many writers in here seem to lack a character trait I consider the most important for any strong writer - empathy.
    Empathy for what, exactly? For getting a stupid comment on positive read in a contest that brought her closer to winning? Empathy for getting a wide array of opinions on an issue she took public instead of at least attempting to handle with the organization in question?

    Originally posted by BKDodger View Post
    If you think the above is because female writers are only 16% as good as men, you are sadly mistaken. The pervasive idea that women's stories are less worthy of receiving cultural prominence needs to end.
    Pervasive idea of whom?

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    • Re: Nicholl 2015...

      Originally posted by BKDodger View Post
      Thank god for the Beatles. Without them, we'd never have Wings.....
      HAHAHA! Good one.
      We gain our innocence by taking yours.

      Comment


      • Re: Nicholl 2015...

        Originally posted by BKDodger View Post
        I can understand GlitterKitty's frustration. It strikes me as odd so many writers in here seem to lack a character trait I consider the most important for any strong writer - empathy.
        Actually, just because someone disagrees with your position doesn't mean they lack empathy.

        I deliberately put myself in this woman's place to see how I would have reacted to the comment. I would have been offended, but not as a woman which I am--as a writer. I am serious about writing and even if one of my scripts fails to get the positive feedback I hoped for, I would still want to be respected for having made a sincere effort, not have my script (even jokingly) dismissed as something that could work for porn.

        I may or may not have written to Nicholl and advised them that this was an inappropriate comment for a reader to make. If I had done so, it would have been to save them problems further down the line, because I believe Nicholl is as serious and sincere in its efforts to help new screenwriters as I am in my efforts to advance professionally.

        And then--and I really hope I have assessed myself fairly here, but this is my usual behavior--I would have looked at the offending joke/comment and asked myself what inspired it. I haven't read the script in question, so I can only speculate, but if I had written a raunchy sex comedy that inspired that remark, I would have told myself that I got the raunchy sex part right but failed to flesh out the female characters and balance out any over the top sex antics with involving and appealing character traits.

        I read for a novel writing contest once and later got a letter back from one of the women whose pages I had read. She said: "You were my harshest judge, but you also were the most helpful. I rewrote according to your notes and sold my book." Thank God she knew how to take notes. I couldn't have been more pleased or happy for her.

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        • Re: Nicholl 2015...

          Removed
          Last edited by Ronaldinho; 08-25-2015, 11:20 PM. Reason: Nothing to be gained from participating in this conversation.

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          • Re: Nicholl 2015...

            Originally posted by opie View Post
            Empathy for what, exactly? For getting a stupid comment on positive read in a contest that brought her closer to winning? Empathy for getting a wide array of opinions on an issue she took public instead of at least attempting to handle with the organization in question?


            Pervasive idea of whom?
            The Zeitgeist. I'm confused - are you looking for an actual name?

            Comment


            • Re: Nicholl 2015...

              Originally posted by P-jay View Post

              I read for a novel writing contest once and later got a letter back from one of the women whose pages I had read. She said: "You were my harshest judge, but you also were the most helpful. I rewrote according to your notes and sold my book." Thank God she knew how to take notes. I couldn't have been more pleased or happy for her.

              DING-DING-DING! Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner.
              We gain our innocence by taking yours.

              Comment


              • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                Originally posted by BKDodger View Post
                The pervasive idea that women's stories are less worthy of receiving cultural prominence needs to end.
                Pervasive idea of whom?

                Originally posted by BKDodger View Post
                The Zeitgeist. I'm confused - are you looking for an actual name?
                I guess I live in a different Zeitgeist. I'd like to know where that idea comes from. That the majority of writers are men certainly doesn't prove it.

                Comment


                • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                  Originally posted by DarkKnight(OfTheSoul)
                  It seems being a screenwriter in Hollywood is the wrong place for you. If you want someone to respect your sincere effort on your script I suggest giving it to your mom to read. And this comment sincerely has nothing to do with sexism, it has to do with being a writer and taking feedback.
                  Actually, I've had a producer tell me that I'm wonderful at taking notes.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                    Originally posted by justin View Post
                    I can't imagine that any writer, female or male, could fail to be offended by the sarcastic tone of these comments. And the sexism of the final sentence makes matters even worse.
                    Once again -- from everything I've read on this thread -- the reviewer gave her a positive review. It seems highly unlikely to me that a reviewer would give a positive review and then intentionally insult the author.

                    Since I haven't read the script, it's hard for me to tell if the if the reviewer was making a joke or was making a serious suggestion.

                    Has anyone considered that the script was so raunchy that maybe it was equivalent to x-rated and the reviewer was making a serious suggestion of a way to market it? (Just a guess -- no way to know.)

                    All I do know is, if you're a writer, you've got to have a thicker skin than that. Especially if you're a writer that's writing raunchy comedies. To be so easily offended, would be like a stand up comedian walking off the stage because one person in the audience makes one disparaging remark.

                    To me, sarcasm is like the air I breathe. If writers don't make a sarcastic remark about my writing, from time to time, I know they're not reading it. If I had curled up into the fetal position, the first time someone made a sarcastic remark, I would have quit writing 45 years ago.
                    "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

                    Comment


                    • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                      When I got on Facebook this evening I was sorry to see the drama that has exploded over one reader's comment. Maybe a little perspective would come in handy right now.

                      I'm not in Hollywood but for the sake of argument, even if we all accept that sexism exists and the movie business is male dominated, how does one questionable comment out of 17,000 somehow prove that a contest with a thirty year track record of helping men AND women break in to the industry is somehow culpable in this? Was the reader even a man? This is a contest that goes to great pains to ensure blind and multiple reads to minimize gender/race/nationality bias. No system will ever be perfect but the outcry demanding Nicholl "fix- some imagined problem and especially police the readers really sends a chill. One poster on Facebook even said we should band together and demand they create a women only fellowship. Really? Demand??

                      We don't know the motives of the writer or the reader so it's not really worth trying to guess at this point but I just hate the thought of "Trial by Facebook" and the fallout for the writers and the contest. Either they'll stop providing comments or the readers (the ones who stick around) will be so cautious in what they say the comments won't be worth paying for.

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                      • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                        Sexism doesn't have to be intentional or targeted - the comment can still be sexist if the writer was a man and the note-giver was a woman. I might be more likely to question whether the script itself was sexist if a man wrote it, but it would still be a sexist comment. That's because of the way that comment fits into the larger context of women in the film industry, especially women's stories. It dismisses the script in a way that stories about women have been dismissed for a long time, so it perpetuates sexist attitudes about women and stories and sex, and that's why it's sexist.

                        Just clarifying.

                        That said, internet witch-hunting is the worst. Nobody seems to have any sense of proportion. I think it was fine to call it out on the Facebook page initially, but once it was addressed by the Academy everybody else should have stayed out of it.

                        I think it's good to call out instances of sexism or general unprofessionalism when you see them, at least if you have a reasonably appropriate way to do so, but the way these things blow up is just sickening sometimes.

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                        • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                          Originally posted by omjs View Post
                          ...

                          I think it's good to call out instances of sexism or general unprofessionalism when you see them, at least if you have a reasonably appropriate way to do so, but the way these things blow up is just sickening sometimes.
                          I absolutely agree, and I want to echo what two previous posters have said. The article that can be found here is excellent.

                          http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...n-mind/399356/

                          Particularly relevant to this situation is the segment on catastrophizing and zero tolerance.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                            Logline: "When her way of life is threatened deep in the backwoods of colonial Georgia, a firebrand mother-of-two who lives off the land takes up arms and declares her own Goddamn war on the British."

                            WAR WOMAN

                            Based on the life of Nancy Morgan Hart.

                            Period Drama - Action.

                            2015 Nicholl semifinalist.

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Hart
                            We gain our innocence by taking yours.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                              Originally posted by DarkKnight(OfTheSoul)
                              Nice.
                              How about this one, it has built in dramatic irony (it's a bit wordy but you get the idea):

                              "The writer of a raunchy and potentially offensive sex comedy script is offended when they receive a comment about the script that could be taken as raunchy and potentially offensive, thereby starting a chain of events that leads to the demise of 'the coddling of the American mind' and resurgence of young people being taught how to live in a world full of potential offenses."
                              Yeah, hell man, I can't get into raising kids. I've raised three and you can't piss them off if you smacked em with broom. Like I said, sexism is a problem. But so is ageism... and... well to blunt, racism. But it's the biz duder. Always has been. Always will be.
                              We gain our innocence by taking yours.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                                What a fascinating Rorschach Test of sexism.

                                I fall into the "it was sexist and inappropriate" camp.

                                Sure, the offending line fit the snarky tone of the rest of the review. And, overall, I didn't have a problem with the tone. It felt like honest criticism.

                                That final line, though? - "With some judicious alterations, it might make a decent porn picture, as the gals do seem kinda hot, at least on the page."

                                It's essentially saying, "I'd rather watch these girls fvck."

                                Which feels like a sexist take-away from a female-led raunchy comedy.

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