Nicholl 2015...

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Nicholl 2015...

    Originally posted by P-jay View Post
    I doubt it because while the script might get attention, the writer has also brought attention to her willingness to handle a difficult situation badly and stir up as much trouble as she can. Who needs that?
    If I was a rep I'd be scared to death of her. But she'll get reads out of it.
    We gain our innocence by taking yours.

    Comment


    • Re: Nicholl 2015...

      Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
      ... I've been cut open and laid bare before too, but if you're gonna play in Hollywood you better have a thick skin and learn from both the positives and the negatives from professional readers. If you're smart you will consider them allies instead of enemies...
      You're right. It might help if writers realized that notes are intended to show us ways to improve our scripts. There's always going to be a sting, but taking out hurt feelings on the note givers is not how to respond. Even my worst note from a Nicholl judge (one comment in one set of notes), which was flat out wrong, showed me that I needed to make some earlier scenes stronger so this misinterpretation couldn't occur. You not only need to listen to the notes, you need to interpret them.

      Originally posted by AE35-Unit View Post
      Personally, I wouldn't blame Nicholl one bit if they choose not to do it next year. But it would be a shame if they decide not to... especially for talented writers you.

      And good luck to you.
      Thank you. There are a lot of talented writers on this board, yourself included. Good luck to you too.

      Comment


      • Re: Nicholl 2015...

        Originally posted by P-jay View Post
        I doubt it because while the script might get attention, the writer has also brought attention to her willingness to handle a difficult situation badly and stir up as much trouble as she can. Who needs that?
        I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here. Do you think that female writers just need to tolerate misogyny and double standards as a part of the Industry? Because nothing changes if that happens. If we're all so afraid of being labelled "uppity" or "troublemakers" then this will continue to be a white dude's game.

        Comment


        • Re: Nicholl 2015...

          I'm always hesitant to tell women that they're NOT experiencing sexism. As a dude, I need to be aware that I'm not always in the best position to make that call.

          That being said, given that the reader didn't know the gender of the writer, we need to be a little cautious about crying sexism.

          It's totally possible and maybe even probable that a sexism would make a reader less open to a raunchy female-perspective script than a raunchy male-perspective script. But we can not assume from the fact that this particular raunchy script didn't land with this particular reader that sexism is why. Maybe he or she liked other raunchy female-driven scripts, and just didn't like this one. (I know of at least one other raunchy female-perspective script which advanced to the semis; would our opinion on this reader change if we learned he or she graded that other script highly?)

          Does he or she make similar jokey comments about male-led scripts which don't work?

          (As a former fellow, I feel sympathetic to the Nicholl family about this dust-up, but I obviously am not speaking for Greg or anyone at the Academy).

          It's wrong to only judge female characters by their looks. But if you find them wanting in those other categories, it's not wrong to say so. To say "there's nothing worthwhile about this character but her looks," is a problem if you're talking about a three-dimensional character with other good qualities, but not if the character is flat and uninteresting and doesn't actually have other interesting qualities. Sexism can cause people to see the latter when they're looking at the former, but sometimes the characters are just poorly drawn.

          Making a comparison to porn strikes me as offensive to ANY writer from a creative standpoint, but not necessarily sexist (not unless you assume that all women are inherently pearl-clutching porn-haters, which is clearly not the case, even if men do consume more pornography than women).

          So my gut reaction reading the entirety of the note is that the writer is having an egoic reaction to negative comments about the script, of the kind we're all familiar with when we hear our work described unfavorably, and lashing out.

          Calling for multiple firings for all this seems like an extension of the kind behavior described by this article.

          Comment


          • Re: Nicholl 2015...

            I was accused of misogyny once. It shocked me more than offended because I had no idea I was doing it to this character. Then I got pissed and re-read it and knew they were right. Then I felt like crap and never did it again.

            We've all written the perfect script... in our minds. I think this woman believed in her mind that her script was infallible, saw that - admittedly dickish comment - and simply took it too personal. It happens to everybody.

            But where she messed up was how she handled it. If you want to aspire to be a pro in this business, you don't run to Mashable unless you simply want the publicity to draw attention to your script and screw Nicholl because it didn't advance to the semi's.

            I agree 100% that sexism is a problem in the industry. But what she did accomplishes nothing except they probably won't give out notes again to anybody. . . because of her.

            I'm gonna laugh my keester off if they announce that reader is a woman.
            We gain our innocence by taking yours.

            Comment


            • Re: Nicholl 2015...

              Now let's see if I can get this straight.

              A women submitted a script, which she describes as a "broad, raunchy, female-driven comedy", but it's sexism if the reviewer doesn't treat it with respect and dignity?

              OK.
              "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

              Comment


              • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                Yeah know, I had this whole post written up trying to explain how as a woman and full-time, professional story analyst I found these notes to be wholly unprofessional and in the case of the last sentence, clearly and obviously sexist - regardless of both the reader's gender and the screenwriter's gender. But I'm pretty sure anything I say here will be chalked up as be being a whiny, thin-skinned little girl who just can't handle being in a man's world. So I'm just going to take my uppity little ladyself elsewhere and hope that someday you fellas are able to see beyond your own worldviews.

                Comment


                • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                  Originally posted by GlitterKitty View Post
                  Yeah know, I had this whole post written up trying to explain how as a woman and full-time, professional story analyst I found these notes to be wholly unprofessional and in the case of the last sentence, clearly and obviously sexist - regardless of both the reader's gender and the screenwriter's gender. But I'm pretty sure anything I say here will be chalked up as be being a whiny, thin-skinned little girl who just can't handle being in a man's world. So I'm just going to take my uppity little ladyself elsewhere and hope that someday you fellas are able to see beyond your own worldviews.
                  Well, you know, that's a shame, because I'd actually like to hear what you claim you were going to offer. I might not agree with it, but I'd like to hear it.

                  It's certainly more useful than calling all of us sexist, especially when several of us have tried to articulate clearly why we think it isn't, while leaving open the possibility that we might be wrong.

                  Accusing me of being a sexist who will call you names rather than discuss the issue rationally, because I'm a man, I guess, strikes me as pretty damn sexist itself.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                    Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
                    But we can not assume from the fact that this particular raunchy script didn't land with this particular reader that sexism is why. Maybe he or she liked other raunchy female-driven scripts, and just didn't like this one.
                    FWIW, the reader gave this script a positive score, according to Nicholl.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                      They did, Opie.
                      We gain our innocence by taking yours.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                        It's amazing how people always seem to want to play devil's advocate for someone who makes some racist/sexist/ignorant comment (it was probably meant as a joke!), while at the same time assuming the worst of the person who takes offense to that comment (they're probably just trying to get attention!). It's just... interesting who people think deserves the benefit of the doubt in situations like this.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                          Originally posted by cp6267a View Post
                          It's amazing how people always seem to want to play devil's advocate for someone who makes some racist/sexist/ignorant comment (it was probably meant as a joke!), while at the same time assuming the worst of the person who takes offense to that comment (they're probably just trying to get attention!). It's just... interesting who people think deserves the benefit of the doubt in situations like this.
                          Judging from the Facebook comments most are siding with the writer. The Mashable article was clearly on her side, omitting key details like the blind read set-up of the Nicholl. Meanwhile Twitter has gone into full-on #burnthewitch mode against the reader, who apparently needs to be fired, killed, then fired again just to be sure.

                          I may be wrong but I wonder if some here are trying to add a little perspective because elsewhere the debate's been so one-sided against the Academy/Nicholl people.
                          My stuff

                          Comment


                          • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                            Originally posted by DarkKnight(OfTheSoul)
                            ugh. that's really unfortunate to hear. this whole situation is really a non incident. it reminds of the recent, insightful remarks Jerry Seinfeld made about not going to college campuses anymore because the kids are too easily offended and self-righteous, etc.
                            Check out the article link Ronaldinho posted a few back. Same thing you're saying.
                            We gain our innocence by taking yours.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                              I don't like pile-ons, but since the Nicholl's official position seems to agree that the comments were offensive, I'm just not sure why there's a need to try to justify them.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Nicholl 2015...

                                Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
                                Now let's see if I can get this straight.

                                A women submitted a script, which she describes as a "broad, raunchy, female-driven comedy", but it's sexism if the reviewer doesn't treat it with respect and dignity?

                                OK.
                                I gotta agree here. First of all, it was a POSITIVE read. Secondly, you write a 'raunchy, female-driven' comedy, and then you get upset when the reader (who gave you that positive read) makes a comment about 'porn' and that the ladies in the script sound 'hot'? Sorry folks, does not sound sexist to me, and I'm female. Sounds like the writer wanted to create controversy to get read, in my opinion. "The only bad publicity is NO publicity". Hope it doesn't backfire on her.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X