Franklin Leonard

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  • Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by sc111 View Post
    I just read this after I posted above. Hmmm:

    since I never used BL I had no idea about the details you shared above. It would give me pause if I was an existing customer. BTW: What is a QC person?
    ----------------
    NEVERMIND on the question: Ha - QC = Quality Control. Penny just dropped.
    did you see this one...
    I sent in a dark "Talented Mister Ripley- inspired drama and the reader called it a tender-hearted comedy with a sympathetic protagonist but didn't like it because they would have preferred it to be more like Entourage. What?
    "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

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    • Re: Franklin Leonard

      Up and Coming --

      I give your response a 6.... maybe 7 if you do a rewrite...

      Comment


      • Re: Franklin Leonard

        Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
        . If you've received contact from people through the site like myself and finalact4, you'd understand why it doesn't make sense to leave the possibility of success through BL off the table.
        exactly. i still have strong reviews, so i'll use it. and truth be told, i'll probably use it for my rom-com and a pilot, too. but i'm back to one at a time. never again will i purchase two at a time. even if you get free evals, take them one. at. a. time.
        "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

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        • Re: Franklin Leonard

          Originally posted by UpandComing View Post

          I've gotta say, I find it interesting that two of the people arguing to "just stop using BL" are people who've never used it. If you've received contact from people through the site like myself and finalact4, you'd understand why it doesn't make sense to leave the possibility of success through BL off the table.
          I don't know if you're including me in your "two of the people" point. I just reread my comments and my initial point was questioning how much objectivity one could reasonably expect when (as Lowell said) evaluating art is a completely subjective process.

          By the same token, I discussed how much professionalism one could reasonably expect from a reader being paid $30 per script.

          That's not telling people "just stop using BL" but rather talking about managing expectations if one decides to continue using it.
          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

          Comment


          • Re: Franklin Leonard

            Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
            Haha, Bono, funny analogy. But I'm not sure it's the best one. When you have a girlfriend, she's the only one you're dating (well, unless you're the leader of a cult).

            As I've said before, the Black List is one of only a handful of options for getting serious notice from the industry. Thus, for many writers, it's included among that small group of services they are using simultaneously. I know it can help people, because I myself have been contacted by a producer and a manger on the site after they read my 8-scoring scripts (though it ultimately did not pan out). So I have firsthand experience with its value.

            Do I have some issues with its operation? Sure. But not enough to justify never using the site again. I think you may have gotten the wrong impression of me. I do not spend my days and nights steaming about the BL. I do pop in to talk about the site every once in awhile on DDP, but that's usually only when someone critiques it and I feel the need to back them up/defend them from the attacks they inevitably receive. It's not like I've been starting my own threads on BL (at least, I haven't in years). And my arguments can sometimes get lengthy and intense, but that's because I enjoy a healthy debate. The fact is, I don't use the site often enough for it to be constantly present of mind -- maybe once or twice a year at most, whenever I have a new script.

            I've gotta say, I find it interesting that two of the people arguing to "just stop using BL" are people who've never used it. If you've received contact from people through the site like myself and finalact4, you'd understand why it doesn't make sense to leave the possibility of success through BL off the table.
            Well you're looking at this wrong. You think because I never used it, I can't possibly offer my opinion on if you should continue to use it. But I never fired a gun either and I'm for gun control. Yes, extreme example, but you get it... Maybe I can see something that people in the group can't see themselves because they keep getting the little bit of cheese, but can't tell that they are being kept in a cage in a lab. Sometimes it takes an outsider to show you the way...

            It's only costing you money, but I do not get why you and others would continue to use a service (even if it helped you at some point) again and again and again if you're unhappy with it.

            You got something out of it. Great. Move on is my suggestion.

            Because you won't admit to yourself that you're counting on the BL being your gateway in... otherwise you wouldn't keep using it...

            Simple as that. As long as you know what you're doing, that's fine. I'm just worried that you guys and gals don't even realize it.

            I can name only 2 success stories and one of them was this week... Done Deal has done much more for writers!

            And I've been there my friends. Not with this service, but others. Putting my hopes and dreams into someone else's hands. When I made it, it was because I realized I had to put my hopes and dreams into my own. Do the same. For yourself. Not me. PLEASE.

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            • Re: Franklin Leonard

              Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
              exactly. i still have strong reviews, so i'll use it. and truth be told, i'll probably use it for my rom-com and a pilot, too. but i'm back to one at a time. never again will i purchase two at a time. even if you get free evals, take them one. at. a. time.
              I was wondering -- did you accept any of the rep offers you received? If you'd rather not share details publically, I understand.
              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

              Comment


              • Re: Franklin Leonard

                Originally posted by Bono View Post
                Well you're looking at this wrong. You think because I never used it, I can't possibly offer my opinion on if you should continue to use it. But I never fired a gun either and I'm for gun control. Yes, extreme example, but you get it... Maybe I can see something that people in the group can't see themselves because they keep getting the little bit of cheese, but can't tell that they are being kept in a cage in a lab. Sometimes it takes an outsider to show you the way...

                It's only costing you money, but I do not get why you and others would continue to use a service (even if it helped you at some point) again and again and again if you're unhappy with it.

                You got something out of it. Great. Move on is my suggestion.

                Because you won't admit to yourself that you're counting on the BL being your gateway in... otherwise you wouldn't keep using it...

                Simple as that. As long as you know what you're doing, that's fine. I'm just worried that you guys and gals don't even realize it.

                I can name only 2 success stories and one of them was this week... Done Deal has done much more for writers!

                And I've been there my friends. Not with this service, but others. Putting my hopes and dreams into someone else's hands. When I made it, it was because I realized I had to put my hopes and dreams into my own. Do the same. For yourself. Not me. PLEASE.
                Hmmm. That "cheese" analogy sounds somewhat related to intermittent reinforcement. It might not be an intentional component of the BL business model but one could say it is definitely at play on some level.

                What makes me raise an eyebrow is that comment on the reditt thread FA4 linked about scripts getting glowing reviews yet scores are intentionally capped at 7. If it's true ... well. I'll stop here.
                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                Comment


                • Re: Franklin Leonard

                  Originally posted by finalact4 View Post

                  not as bad as difference between a 9 and a 3.
                  It seems that you're having a hard time in accepting the Black List score of "3" as valid, considering other reviewers found it to be worthy of a score of "9," so you demand satisfaction: fire this reviewer, retrain this reviewer, keep an eye on this reviewer, etc.

                  It seems you missed my thread on "rejection."

                  A lot of great writers had their worked panned before someone saw the magic on the page and championed it, where it became a huge critical and commercial success.

                  WARNING. CLICHE ALERT!

                  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

                  I know a "3" is hard to accept because it means, in this ONE reviewer's subjected opinion, the majority of the major elements were weak: concept, world, character, dialogue, theme, structure, pacing, set pieces, etc.

                  Assuming this reviewer has been vetted, competent and enjoys the genre, then I suggest that you chalk it up to the subjectivity of the business and move on.

                  Otherwise, this emotional baggage will distract you from concentrating on your work and achieving your goal of becoming a professional screenwriter.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Franklin Leonard

                    Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                    I was wondering -- did you accept any of the rep offers you received? If you'd rather not share details publically, I understand.
                    you mean, originally? i sent a bunch of queries out and had about twenty read requests. i used the black list scores of 8s and 9s in the subject line with the title. two of the people that requested it read it in 24-48 hours and called me, i went with the first one, not knowing any better.

                    i've only had three read requests out of hundreds of queries sent. one pass. crickets from the other two. sending the next spec out this week. sending another wave for Tracker out too.

                    Tinder should be ready in a couple of weeks. i keep getting derailed by other things. tomorrow. solid writing day. after the DMV ugh.
                    "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

                    Comment


                    • Re: Franklin Leonard

                      Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                      It seems that you're having a hard time in accepting the Black List score of "3" as valid, considering other reviewers found it to be worthy of a score of "9," so you demand satisfaction: fire this reviewer, retrain this reviewer, keep an eye on this reviewer, etc.

                      It seems you missed my thread on "rejection."

                      A lot of great writers had their worked panned before someone saw the magic on the page and championed it, where it became a huge critical and commercial success.

                      WARNING. CLICHE ALERT!

                      Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

                      I know a "3" is hard to accept because it means, in this ONE reviewer's subjected opinion, the majority of the major elements were weak: concept, world, character, dialogue, theme, structure, pacing, set pieces, etc.

                      Assuming this reviewer has been vetted, competent and enjoys the genre, then I suggest that you chalk it up to the subjectivity of the business and move on.

                      Otherwise, this emotional baggage will distract you from concentrating on your work and achieving your goal of becoming a professional screenwriter.
                      whoa, JoeNYC, chill, dude. haha you're shoving a lot of assumptions my way. what i said wasn't about my rating 9 to a 3. i was using that as an example of disparity, which actually should have been 9 - 4. it was in response to JL.

                      i will offer that in one review i receive a 9 for dialogue and in another i received a 2. that's just crazy. most of the time reviews are within 1 or 2 points of each other. there are weird outliers, though.

                      actually, i'm not demanding anything. my action is to NOT take them up on their offer for a discounted review and will suspend my script when the free monthly hosting (offered b/c of a previous review) is over.

                      i'm offering an opinion about the quality and consistency of the evaluations over time. i'm not talking about just one review. this review was already a replacement review for a subpar review where the reader made blatant errors. i'm sharing my experience and voicing my frustration with others that pay for the service. i'm not alone, there are many complaints.

                      have you ever used the site, JoeNYC? are you speaking from experience at using the site?

                      i understand subjectivity. i accept rejection. and i can still have an opinion about whether or not i believe that a paid service of which i am a patron has degraded over time or not.

                      it's too easy to say, "chalk it up..." the way change happens is when enough people voice their opinion and someone sees the value in it.

                      i don't need to read your thread to understand rejection. i receive it, accept it and handle it just fine.

                      it's not about one review, Joe. it just happens that the 3 stands out. there are other issues.

                      how about if you do what you think it right, and i do what i think is right and we just respect each other. if i feel a service i'm paying for is not living up to it's claim or my expectation based on previous experience, i'm going to say something about it. that's my prerogative.

                      "emotional baggage?" you're hilarious.
                      Last edited by finalact4; 09-12-2019, 09:09 PM.
                      "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

                      Comment


                      • Re: Franklin Leonard

                        Fine you all convinced me, I have an extra $30 bucks a month to host a screenplay so some 19 year old high school kid can tell me it sucks. Why didn't I do this before? Thanks, everyone!

                        This joke is a 5 out of 10. I'm not giving you guys A material for free. You have to pay. $5 bucks a joke.

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                        • Re: Franklin Leonard

                          Originally posted by Bono View Post
                          Fine you all convinced me, I have an extra $30 bucks a month to host a screenplay so some 19 year old high school kid can tell me it sucks. Why didn't I do this before? Thanks, everyone!

                          This joke is a 5 out of 10. I'm not giving you guys A material for free. You have to pay. $5 bucks a joke.
                          it's a 3 at best
                          "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

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                          • Re: Franklin Leonard

                            3 or 10 -- it's still $5 bucks! Paypal me.

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                            • Re: Franklin Leonard

                              Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                              you mean, originally? i sent a bunch of queries out and had about twenty read requests. i used the black list scores of 8s and 9s in the subject line with the title. two of the people that requested it read it in 24-48 hours and called me, i went with the first one, not knowing any better.

                              i've only had three read requests out of hundreds of queries sent. one pass. crickets from the other two. sending the next spec out this week. sending another wave for Tracker out too.

                              Tinder should be ready in a couple of weeks. i keep getting derailed by other things. tomorrow. solid writing day. after the DMV ugh.
                              Got it. I took it that you got offers from reps from Blacklist alone. As in, "Love your BL script. Can I rep you." Thanks for explaining.
                              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                              Comment


                              • Re: Franklin Leonard

                                Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                                It seems that you're having a hard time in accepting the Black List score of "3" as valid, considering other reviewers found it to be worthy of a score of "9," so you demand satisfaction: fire this reviewer, retrain this reviewer, keep an eye on this reviewer, etc.

                                It seems you missed my thread on "rejection." ..
                                Oy freaking vey, Joe.
                                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                                Comment

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