Franklin Leonard

[GucciGhostXXX]

Re: Franklin Leonard

The guy who wrote this Reddit post (who sold a script to a low-level producer through the BL website) thinks that the main people who find use for the site are up-and-coming producers seeking low-budget material they can produce. Not so much managers (particularly high-level ones) or agents.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriti...le_maximizing/

I think this is one of the reasons we'll never see the BL put out information about representation outcomes for the site.

True, it's a great place to pad your PILE if you're a wannabe producer. Free filtering system for a dude running an operation out of his closet. They don't pay, correct?

Ps... Franklin, you're welcome, I bought you dinner!

[GucciGhostXXX]

Re: Franklin Leonard

...Oh, and let me add that:

My same (dark) script that tanked on TheBlacklist website via low scores and zero reads is the same script that went to showrrunners and got me in the running for 3 network shows.

Trippy shiz... I don't get this town.

[UpandComing]

Re: Franklin Leonard

The guy who wrote this Reddit post (who sold a script to a low-level producer through the BL website) thinks that the main people who find use for the site are up-and-coming producers seeking low-budget material they can produce. Not so much managers (particularly high-level ones) or agents.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriti...le_maximizing/

I think this is one of the reasons we'll never see the BL put out information about representation outcomes for the site.

[GucciGhostXXX]

Re: Franklin Leonard

Guess I'm the late guy to the party...

After not being a writer for 3 years I tried the Black List website to get my foot back in the door as a writer without having to call in favors. I dunno, guess I was being stubborn. I was hella skeptical, for good reason. Put my script up. I got low scores on everything but my character work. Bruh, I already sold this script! WTF!? I got zero read requests. None.

I don't know what I was thinking. I said "F' this!", pulled the script down and went the traditional route. Called in favors to pass my stuff around. A couple weeks later I was repped up again. That's how I got repped the second time.

To add to the data: I don't know anyone who's gotten repped by cold query nor The Black List website.

And here's a miserable stat: My ex (CAA agent) in 15 years never signed anyone who came to her via the "friends and family" submission. 100 reads? Hard to say. Most of them she just had them 'covered', read the coverage, and passed based on that. She never signed anyone who wasn't a referral from someone else high up. NO ONE. EVER. In fact, she never chased clients. Never read queries. Never went to conferences. Never read a single script on the real BlackList (though some of her clients were on it). Clients were basically handed to her on a silver platter. Agents have it cush...

Managers work a little (MUCH?) harder to find new clients.


ps... I remember when Franklin asked my ex what she thought of the idea of starting the Blacklist (the real one). She's one of the people he pitched the idea to first. She told me the idea. I thought it was cool. But, it's turned into something insidious (the website). Although, in Franklin's defense, I'd sell out the Blacklist name too. Why not? This whole town is insidious.

[finalact4]

Re: Franklin Leonard

Well, I guess I kinda sort of know Bono. So there's one!

And I think the line between querying and referrals is clear. No need to hash that out.

How many repped/pro writers do I know? Probably 10-15 at this point. They got reps through referrals, fellowships, and working on shows as PAs and WAs.

I've never had any success with it. Tons of reads and a grand total of one meeting with a manager who offered representation, but in the end I'm glad I said no. He would've sucked.

And that post from the BL is six years old. Isn't that around the time it started? I'd guess there was more excitement about it then, so an 8 would get more recognition. I'm not sure if that's the case now. The shine seems to have worn off. But I could be wrong.

now you know two.

it's weird, i wrote this post and it seems to have disappeared into the ether.

i had two rep offers within a week of sending queries and about two dozen read requests. i had to send out emails telling the remaining requests that the spec was no longer available for consideration. i used the fact that i had Black List scores of 8s and 9s in the query. people in the industry probably "know" about the Black List more now than they did a couple years ago. other pro writers refer to it [the black list] as a resource to have your work be noticed.

a few people, among many, who do respond to queries:

1. Jake Wagner
2. Brooklyn Weaver
3. Aaron Kaplan
4. David Alpert
5. Adam Kolbrenner

remember that most managers at this level are also producers, so to attract them they have to really love, love, love your material. they are not the only game in town, but i say this to show that some of the biggest game play. there are many others that do as well.

there are many ways to break in. referrals are difficult if you're an out of towner, living on the outside looking in, simply because you are not in proximity to make those direct connections. queries work. believe it or not, your choice in the matter. 10% return on a well constructed logline is average in my experience. send hundreds if you can. it's a numbers game.

don't give up. don't give in.

no one in hollywood made it because they quit.

[Friday]

Re: Franklin Leonard

Is there a difference between now and maybe 5 years ago? Different writers have broken in at different time periods so they might have different experiences.

[docgonzo]

Re: Franklin Leonard

Well, I guess I kinda sort of know Bono. So there's one!

And I think the line between querying and referrals is clear. No need to hash that out.

How many repped/pro writers do I know? Probably 10-15 at this point. They got reps through referrals, fellowships, and working on shows as PAs and WAs.

I've never had any success with it. Tons of reads and a grand total of one meeting with a manager who offered representation, but in the end I'm glad I said no. He would've sucked.

And that post from the BL is six years old. Isn't that around the time it started? I'd guess there was more excitement about it then, so an 8 would get more recognition. I'm not sure if that's the case now. The shine seems to have worn off. But I could be wrong.

[Bono]

Re: Franklin Leonard

I don't want to speak for docgonzo but in reading your previous post, I assumed you were talking about blind email queries. I have no stats to back this up whatsoever, just my own personal experience in this business, so I may very well be entirely wrong, but I'd be shocked if the majority of working writers got their start via blind queries. Obviously it happens (just look at you and the other posters who've piped up in this thread) and I think it's awesome when it does.

But I would personally consider an assistant asking their agent boss to read their script as breaking in from within the industry, which I think is very different from what is normally meant by the term "querying." That assistant built relationships to get that job and then built a relationship with their agent boss. Again, I'm only speaking from my own personal experience but I think that most of the working writers that I know broke in that way... moving to LA, getting an entry-level job and building relationships all while writing their ass off.

The bottom line though is that there seriously is no one, two or three ways to do it. Whatever gets your script read!

I was talking about blind queries, but then again, when does it become a relationship and you ask them to read the script? If you've talked to that manager before in any way?

You're not wrong, I was just having fun with calling that a query from assistant to boss. And yes if that's your world, it makes sense to know more of them. I guess most writers I know I met on here and they didn't' go that route.

I guess it's due to the emergence of more managers and just more places to query -- when it used to be mostly just agents you can query and less access to break in without someone else getting you into the club.

Anyway -- yes anyway is fine.

But circle back to what Jeff Lowell mentioned and what I was trying to say many times in these thread (at least I think it was this thread been going on so long) is that if you do well on the black list, use that to query with and get read! Query, ask your boss, get your foot driven over by Ron Howard and then ask them to read your script that got all 9's on the black list.

[DLev24]

Re: Franklin Leonard

By the way --if you're assistant to an agent, you still have to ask your boss to read your script -- so it's still a query...

I don't want to speak for docgonzo but in reading your previous post, I assumed you were talking about blind email queries. I have no stats to back this up whatsoever, just my own personal experience in this business, so I may very well be entirely wrong, but I'd be shocked if the majority of working writers got their start via blind queries. Obviously it happens (just look at you and the other posters who've piped up in this thread) and I think it's awesome when it does.

But I would personally consider an assistant asking their agent boss to read their script as breaking in from within the industry, which I think is very different from what is normally meant by the term "querying." That assistant built relationships to get that job and then built a relationship with their agent boss. Again, I'm only speaking from my own personal experience but I think that most of the working writers that I know broke in that way... moving to LA, getting an entry-level job and building relationships all while writing their ass off.

The bottom line though is that there seriously is no one, two or three ways to do it. Whatever gets your script read!

[catcon]

Re: Franklin Leonard

Well, I'm a query dude all the way, but that's out of necessity - because I have no fear and just don't have any discretionary income for the pay-for-access services anyway.

But the thing I get here, about what's being said about query success, is that if you're getting a reaction when you mention a BL score, or that coverage is available from a reputable source, or a significant placement in a contest that counts, etc.... it means that these queries are being read.

So many think they're a total waste of time because they figure automatic email rules are simply filtering them out. But I tend to think that almost everything is read... out of fear of missing something.

[JeffLowell]

Re: Franklin Leonard

I got repped off a query, but it was a million years ago.

But here's a post from early in the BL's existence:

I mentioned my "8" coverage in query letters and got almost 40 script requests. From some very big companies. The Black List definitely has huge name recognition in the Industry. Getting a high BL score was a huge help.

Being proactive with a query campaign that mentions a high Black List score will get you a whole lot further than just sitting around and waiting for downloads to come in.

I got way more script requests through querying than downloads on the site.

And it's nice to know exactly who is reading your script.

Link to the post.

Querying is tough. I remember having about a 3% success rate through querying, but when you send out enough letters...

[Satriales]

Re: Franklin Leonard

I was repped off a query.

[Bono]

Re: Franklin Leonard

I would argue that's not the case. I don't know anyone who has gotten a rep from a query. Yes, it happens but I don't think most get theirs this way. It's usually a referral from working in the industry in some other capacity (assistant, on set, etc.), or getting into one of the TV fellowships, or winnng/placing high in a significant contest (Nicholl, Austin, both Tracking comps). But if I were to guess, it's referral that gets most writers their first rep.

Well if you sort of know me, then you know one person that got repped from a query. And everyone I met on this board the past 10 plus year, working writers, got started that way. I'm struggling to think of 1 person I know personally that got in the referral way... And I'm thinking of 100 plus writers...

Do you know 10 writers that made it the way you said above or 2?

Honestly i was half asleep when i wrote that other post, but my guess is 98% of writers got in because of queries...

By the way --if you're assistant to an agent, you still have to ask your boss to read your script -- so it's still a query...

I don't really have to prove that queries are the main way we break in do I? But there's never one way in.... It's still about putting yourself and your script out there.... If you just use the BL or a contest and nothing happens from it -- it's up to you to keep pushing your script.

They rarely come to you. You have to go to them. At least in 2019. And in 2007 when I was starting out....

Now I'm sure this was a lot different in the 80s, 90s...

[catcon]

Re: Franklin Leonard

Sheesh, another 12+ page BL thread...

Anyway, I do think it's just a typical pay-for-access site, with a few benefits of the prestige variety.

But as to cost-benefit ratio, it's a rare business that is successful that charges the sellers (in this case, writers) and gives free access to the actual users and eventual buyers (in this case, reps and producers). Nice....

I understand the (fairly modest) cost of the coverage.

But since almost everybody has their own website on which they could host their scripts, or have access to such webspace, for free, the BL should enable URL links to the scripts, and do away with the hosting charges. I pay $60 a year for over a gig, on which I host all my various websites. His site charges, what, $30 or more a MONTH for hosting a 200 kilobyte script file?!

Everything else could remain the same on the BL site: The searchable evaluations and ratings, etc. but recognizing the reality of hosting costs would be a benefit. Hard to administer? Maybe. A cut into the revenue. Absolutely.

But it'll only happen when writers apply to BL (and the other such sites) the same collective willpower they're presently sending the way of the agencies.

[NoNeckJoe]

Re: Franklin Leonard

The blacklist pay site exists primary to tell industry folks NOT to read scripts.

No. It exists primarily to make Franklin Leonard money, by underpaying readers to read the work of neophytes who are so inexperienced as to be unable to recognize his predatory business model.

Run the numbers of how many scripts have been reviewed and hosted on that site at great expense to the amateur screenwriting community, and how little the Black List readers have been paid to read those thousands of scripts, and it isn't hard to see that the guy has made literal millions off his predatory business model.

I don't think he set out to deliberately defraud writers, but that is what he has done.