Franklin Leonard

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  • Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
    let me restate, yes subjectivity is a reality. i disagree about the "simply reads scripts," as that is not what the paid reader is hired to do, to just read the script like they do a novel on vacation. they are paid to give their expert, experienced, professional, and as objective as possible evaluation of the work in question. the are supposed to attempt to remove personal biases and prejudices.

    agreed, a script can have many diverging scores. most do to some degree.

    and we all know that contests have similar problems with reader inconsistency, that's why Nicholl, i believe it is, has a back up, if there's a high and low consideration it gets read by a third. i'm pretty sure that's how it goes, though i've not entered it.
    Yes, it's true that professional script readers have duties that go beyond just a casual reader. But the point I'm making is that the "response" part of their job is 95% of the time accurate. It's just like when you or anyone picks up a book anywhere - you know if it's emotionally engaging you or not. If the writer is writing in strong conflict, if the stakes are meaningful, if the context is clear and engaging, if the story escalates constantly and organically, it will get successful coverage.

    The difficulty is when something in the script isn't working, because the presumably vetted reader must now intellectualize the reason why it didn't work. And if they are professional studio readers as the Black List claims, they are experienced in articulating the reason why the script didn't work. But even if their reasons may diverge, their emotional response to the work is for the most part (but not always) spot on.

    Neil Gaiman once said that 95% of the responses you get from a work of art is accurate. But 95% of the suggestions you get on how to fix what isn't working in that art is inaccurate.

    Comment


    • Re: Franklin Leonard

      Originally posted by Bono View Post
      I'm simply saying -- why don't you try not to use the service for 6 months -- it cost monthly to host a script right?
      Bono, I don't host scripts on the site permanently. When I complete a script (and have had it evaluated by a few trusted people), I put it up on the site, buy two evaluations, and host it for a month. If I get less than an 8 score, I suspend hosting. Again, your lack of understanding of how the site can be used makes you less qualified than you think to make judgments about how people use it.

      Originally posted by Bono View Post
      I'm simply trying to say, from what I read on this thread, you should know that you don't need the BL to break in. Simple as that.

      What success have you personally had from it? I assumed this whole time from your past posts you were repped and doing great? You seemed tuned into the industry. But now I read these as you're afraid to let go out of fear...
      You're a funny guy, Bono, but right now you're beginning to sound like a broken record.

      You said that "you don't need the BL to break in." Saying that is as meaningless as saying "you don't need contests to break in" or "you don't need queries to break in." NO ONE knows what will be the thing that helps them break in, which is why most people try a variety of methods.

      I'm not sticking with the BL out of "fear." I'm sticking with it because trying several different options will increase my odds of something happening. If you can't understand that simple logic, I can't really help you.

      Seriously - the only one that needs to "let go" of something is you needing to let go of trying to tell other adults on here how to spend their money. I like you, man, but the condescension's not a good look.
      "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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      • Re: Franklin Leonard

        Someone posted the Verve Coverage Guide on r/screenwriting the other day and it mentions the BL specifically in regard to how the go about covering scripts.

        The Blacklist is a company that monitors unrepresented writers with unsolicited materials. Generally, the material is not strong enough to be considered for representation but, sometimes, there is an excellent screenplay or writer waiting to be discovered. More often than not, these submissions are a pass. If so, you will probably know within the first 30 or 40 pages.

        So while they are getting subs from the BL, they're looking at them with a jaundiced eye. The implication is pretty clear: aside from a rare exception, they don't see BL scripts as being ready for primetime. If that's the prevailing attitude at a mid-tier agency that is more writer-friendly than most, it's not hard to imagine how CAA or WME might feel.

        Comment


        • Re: Franklin Leonard

          Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
          Bono, I don't host scripts on the site permanently. When I complete a script (and have had it evaluated by a few trusted people), I put it up on the site, buy two evaluations, and host it for a month. If I get less than an 8 score, I suspend hosting. Again, your lack of understanding of how the site can be used makes you less qualified than you think to make judgments about how people use it.



          You're a funny guy, Bono, but right now you're beginning to sound like a broken record.

          You said that "you don't need the BL to break in." Saying that is as meaningless as saying "you don't need contests to break in" or "you don't need queries to break in." NO ONE knows what will be the thing that helps them break in, which is why most people try a variety of methods.

          I'm not sticking with the BL out of "fear." I'm sticking with it because trying several different options will increase my odds of something happening. If you can't understand that simple logic, I can't really help you.

          Seriously - the only one that needs to "let go" of something is you needing to let go of trying to tell other adults on here how to spend their money. I like you, man, but the condescension's not a good look.
          Oh yeah, you love me... Are you the bagel guy? (NYC joke for us)

          Listen to me, the old man. I was just trying to help you work out what I thought you were saying with your 50 posts in this thread that I need to let go of with my 10 posts...

          You seem to be a truth teller. I was just treating you the way you would treat me if I was saying, I use Service X and yada yada...

          If you think I'm a broken record, have you read -- um EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD?

          I did it this way. I was considering posting for the next 10 weeks the same exact post just to drive you mad, but I'm mature now...

          Comment


          • Re: Franklin Leonard

            Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
            Bono, I don't host scripts on the site permanently. When I complete a script (and have had it evaluated by a few trusted people), I put it up on the site, buy two evaluations, and host it for a month. If I get less than an 8 score, I suspend hosting. Again, your lack of understanding of how the site can be used makes you less qualified than you think to make judgments about how people use it.



            You're a funny guy, Bono, but right now you're beginning to sound like a broken record.

            You said that "you don't need the BL to break in." Saying that is as meaningless as saying "you don't need contests to break in" or "you don't need queries to break in." NO ONE knows what will be the thing that helps them break in, which is why most people try a variety of methods.

            I'm not sticking with the BL out of "fear." I'm sticking with it because trying several different options will increase my odds of something happening. If you can't understand that simple logic, I can't really help you.

            Seriously - the only one that needs to "let go" of something is you needing to let go of trying to tell other adults on here how to spend their money. I like you, man, but the condescension's not a good look.
            it's a good approach. i've learned not to leave it on the site. even with being in the top lists, your return is maybe a single download every month or so, and you never know who that person is.
            "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

            Comment


            • Re: Franklin Leonard

              Originally posted by Strangerthanfiction
              No, that's not how it goes. A script needs two very high scores on the Nicholls to get a third read. Only the high end of the top 20% were read three times this year. I made the top 20% but only got two reads.
              I'm not sure this is correct, Strangerthanfiction -- I had a extremely positive read for the first read and the the next one was so-so, but I still got a third read (made the top 15 percent).

              I think if there's a notable discrepancy between the score of the first and second read you get a third read? And then they take the averages of all three reads to see if you move on?

              Comment


              • Re: Franklin Leonard

                Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                it's a good approach. i've learned not to leave it on the site. even with being in the top lists, your return is maybe a single download every month or so, and you never know who that person is.
                So inform the dummy -- how much does that cost per script with 2 paid reviews for a month?

                (sure it's on this thread somewhere and on the site, but i'm fat and lazy)

                Comment


                • Re: Franklin Leonard

                  Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
                  Someone posted the Verve Coverage Guide on r/screenwriting the other day and it mentions the BL specifically in regard to how the go about covering scripts.

                  The Blacklist is a company that monitors unrepresented writers with unsolicited materials. Generally, the material is not strong enough to be considered for representation but, sometimes, there is an excellent screenplay or writer waiting to be discovered. More often than not, these submissions are a pass. If so, you will probably know within the first 30 or 40 pages.

                  So while they are getting subs from the BL, they're looking at them with a jaundiced eye. The implication is pretty clear: aside from a rare exception, they don't see BL scripts as being ready for primetime. If that's the prevailing attitude at a mid-tier agency that is more writer-friendly than most, it's not hard to imagine how CAA or WME might feel.
                  i was just saying this exact thing to a fellow writer on twitter. yes, the industry knows about the black list. they use the black list to search for material. but i think you're right, in general, the consensus is that the overall quality is not there, but, and this is a big but--

                  there are good scripts. we know that.

                  so, here are the actual stats from the black list site of all 3256 scripts hosted:

                  2 have financiers attached
                  66 have agents
                  124 have managers
                  34 have both agents and managers
                  130 have producers attached

                  #of scripts on the top lists
                  167 for the QTR - requires min of 2 ratings above 6.12 (community average)
                  196 for the YEAR - requires 4 ratings above 6.12 (community average)

                  and we all KNOW that writers with reps have an advantage because their rep can go onto the site, download the script and rate it a 10. happens all the time. so even if they get a good review and a shitty review they stay way on top.

                  with that in consideration, how many of those top scripts have a manager, agent, and/or producer? one could assume that the majority of the scripts on the top list for the quarter would be within the "repped" category, no?

                  i'd look it up for you, but i think we can draw conclusions on our own.
                  "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

                  Comment


                  • Re: Franklin Leonard

                    Originally posted by Bono View Post
                    So inform the dummy -- how much does that cost per script with 2 paid reviews for a month?

                    (sure it's on this thread somewhere and on the site, but i'm fat and lazy)
                    it's gone up.

                    $30/month X 12 (that's how many months are in a year, you know just in case) X # of years.

                    $75 a read X 2 = $150

                    so if you're on the top list, have a reader recommend and are on the featured script page you might invest in a year...

                    $510 -- but, you're not gonna stop at two like you should, because the next two reviews you get are free and they'll be lower, and maybe they'll be a 2 point spread, so they'll offer you a read for each at a discounted price of $40/ea. so that's an additional $80. then after the quarter is up you're on the yearly list, but you know the default is "quarter," so you just might be "smart" enough to buy two more to see if you can get back on the QUARTER list only to be hit with a wildcard 2. do you see the pattern? i'm not saying this happens all the time, but it could.

                    now you're north of $690.00

                    don't even go there, i know, i know...
                    "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

                    Comment


                    • Re: Franklin Leonard

                      Originally posted by Strangerthanfiction
                      Wasn't trying to one up you. Not my style. I'm curious to know the way it works myself. Maybe my understanding of it is wrong. If anyone does know, please enlighten us.
                      no, i know you weren't. i didn't take it that way, i just couldn't actually remember the story correctly when you posted, so my bad. i really don't know for sure. but i think figment might be right.
                      "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

                      Comment


                      • Re: Franklin Leonard

                        Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                        it's gone up.

                        $30/month X 12 (that's how many months are in a year, you know just in case) X # of years.

                        $75 a read X 2 = $150

                        so if you're on the top list, have a reader recommend and are on the featured script page you might invest in a year...

                        $510 -- but, you're not gonna stop at two like you should, because the next two reviews you get are free and they'll be lower, and maybe they'll be a 2 point spread, so they'll offer you a read for each at a discounted price of $40/ea. so that's an additional $80. then after the quarter is up you're on the yearly list, but you know the default is "quarter," so you just might be "smart" enough to buy two more to see if you can get back on the QUARTER list only to be hit with a wildcard 2. do you see the pattern? i'm not saying this happens all the time, but it could.

                        now you're north of $690.00

                        don't even go there, i know, i know...
                        So can you go month to month? So you host 1 month, get 2 reviews and pay $180 like I think Up/Coming said he does?

                        I surely see a pattern...

                        Comment


                        • Re: Franklin Leonard

                          Originally posted by Bono View Post
                          So can you go month to month? So you host 1 month, get 2 reviews and pay $180 like I think Up/Coming said he does?

                          I surely see a pattern...
                          yes, month to month, but more than $180, because the reviews can take 3 weeks of the 4 week hosting period. so you might have to pay for an additional month most likely. a lot of writers will do one review, if it's good pay for the second, so 2 months min. if a review goes past the 3 weeks you'll get a free month.

                          if you get 8s and above you'll be offered free reads.

                          if you have a two point swing you'll be offered a discounted eval that you have to pay for. $10 off.
                          "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

                          Comment


                          • Re: Franklin Leonard

                            Originally posted by Strangerthanfiction
                            As far as I know, a script needs two very high scores on the Nicholls to get a third read. Only the high end of the top 20% were read three times this year. I made the top 20% but only got two reads.
                            I had three total reads -- but only two were positive. Here's what mine said:

                            Some good news: your script placed among the Top 15% of all entries, meaning that it received two good scores but fell short of the total needed to advance to the Quarterfinal Round. Most Top 15% scripts were read three times; some were read only twice.

                            That makes it as clear as... mud.

                            Regardless, congrats on your two positive reads. No easy feat.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Franklin Leonard

                              Originally posted by figment View Post
                              I had three total reads -- but only two were positive. Here's what mine said:

                              Some good news: your script placed among the Top 15% of all entries, meaning that it received two good scores but fell short of the total needed to advance to the Quarterfinal Round. Most Top 15% scripts were read three times; some were read only twice.

                              That makes it as clear as... mud.

                              Regardless, congrats on your two positive reads. No easy feat.
                              Originally posted by Strangerthanfiction
                              As far as I know, a script needs two very high scores on the Nicholls to get a third read. Only the high end of the top 20% were read three times this year. I made the top 20% but only got two reads.
                              Unless things have changed, this is how Nicholl first round reading works:

                              Every script is read twice. Those scripts receiving at least one strong positive score (typically the cut-off is 80 or just above 80) are read a third time.

                              For instance, let's say the strong positive read cut-off for a given year is 80. That means all scripts receiving an 80 as one of their first two reads will receive a third read, no matter what the second score is. If a script does not receive at least one 80, it will only be read twice.

                              The best two scores of the three reads are used to determine the quarterfinalist scripts.

                              In this example, it would be possible for a top 10% script to garner scores such as 78-78 and not receive a third read.

                              It would be possible for a top 20% script to be read three times with scores such as 80-65-60 (though most top 20% scripts would only receive two reads with scores similar to 73-72).

                              Comment


                              • Re: Franklin Leonard

                                So, what's the minimum amount you can spend on the Blacklist and still get a good result?



                                I am not too clear on all the jargon about quarterly lists, waiting for your review, while hosting.... Wouldn't you only host if you get an 8 or above and just do it for a few months? For anything below, you just discontinue?



                                Other questions, people who haven't used the blacklist are: Who's downloading your scripts? Sometimes, you don't want to approach someone who might have already read your script anonymously on the Blacklist. Also, for the top contests, if you do really well in one top contests, usually you'll land in another top contest. What's the consistency of a high contest placer doing well on the Blacklist? Just trying to get a gauge of their judging.

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