Franklin Leonard

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    ScreenRider
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  • ScreenRider
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
    is there anything you can discern from the 3 that you might be able to disqualify it for? for example, did they get a character's name wrong or a plot point wrong that might indicate that thy didn't actually read the script?

    apologies if you mentioned it previously, but are those the only two reviews you received? i do remember that they used to give discounted rates on a two point spread, but a 5 point spread is huge.

    I actually paid for five reviews up front.

    First one was a 7.

    The second one was a 5. It had some grammar mistakes, got a character name wrong and had a strange political objection. I complained to BL and they gave me a replacement review and removed the original from the average.

    Next day, the third review that was already in the queue got posted and it was a 3. I really can't complain about this one because it appeared that the reviewer read it and clearly spelled out the issues they had with it. It seemed like they just didn't buy the premise of the script and couldn't enjoy it. Obviously, it's subjective but I am surprised the score was so low. I thought you get a 3 for spelling your name right.

    Still waiting on three more reviews to come in. I think I will wait until all the scores come in to see which review is the outlier and then decide if there is anything to complain about. Hoping for a 2 or an 8 to make it even more random.

    I'll email you the two reviews. Thank you.

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  • Satriales
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  • Satriales
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    While we're on the subject this was one of the reviews I got on there years back that I emailed them about. Still hilarious.

    http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...5&postcount=61

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  • finalact4
    Member

  • finalact4
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by Bono View Post
    I stand by everything I said. I win the contest!!!!
    the prize has already been claimed by the one true winner...

    Finaact4, breaker of rules, first of her name, true ruler of the infinite realms of the fantastical, writer of much and supporter of all writers.

    beat that, smarty pants.

    FA4

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  • finalact4
    Member

  • finalact4
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    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by ScreenRider View Post
    I got an automated email mentioning the disparity and offering me an additional review for the discounted price of $40. But since the 3 lowered my average so much, I was not interested in any more reviews.
    hey ScreenRider:
    push back harder. that is not acceptable-- a five point spread? tell them that it is a poor reflection on their website when they tout that they are working within industry standards and there is such a huge disparity. respectfully request that they offer you one free and one at half price.

    is there anything you can discern from the 3 that you might be able to disqualify it for? for example, did they get a character's name wrong or a plot point wrong that might indicate that thy didn't actually read the script?

    apologies if you mentioned it previously, but are those the only two reviews you received? i do remember that they used to give discounted rates on a two point spread, but a 5 point spread is huge.

    if they push back with a, "no" tell them that you'll take the second review at a discount if they completely voice the 3 if you get a score 2 points above, which is a 5. that should help your average.

    push back, you can't get anything if you don't stand up for yourself. if you want you can email me both the reviews and i can try to see if there's anything that stands out. up to you.

    my email is in my profile.

    good luck.
    FA4

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  • ScreenRider
    User

  • ScreenRider
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
    i assume you did receive additional reviews because of the disparity between a 7 and a 3?
    I got an automated email mentioning the disparity and offering me an additional review for the discounted price of $40. But since the 3 lowered my average so much, I was not interested in any more reviews.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bono
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    I stand by everything I said. I win the contest!!!!

    Leave a comment:

  • UpandComing
    Member

  • UpandComing
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    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
    as far as i'm concerned, we're good. no hard feelings here.
    Likewise.

    Leave a comment:

  • finalact4
    Member

  • finalact4
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by barh View Post
    My original question was 'why doesn't Franklin Leonard post here anymore?' If this thread doesn't get him back here, nothing will.
    no, i'm sure he's too busy.

    I see it would be helpful if the names were clearer.

    The Annual Black List could just be "The Black List" and the Black List web site could be "The Black List Script Service" or something that could connect it to the brand name but also clearly distinguish it from the completely separate annual list. Like if they had the Nicholl Competition and the Nicholl Coverage Service or something like that.
    no, i wouldn't be for that. there's a legitimacy that comes with using "The Black List." it actually helps a writer. even if the recipient is confused. i would bet that might be one of the reasons for using the brand for the website.

    I had suggested on another post that they group together scores, such as 4 to 6 and 7 to 9, so what would previously have been 7s could get more of a 'benefit of the doubt' effect, and more people might read them.
    absolutely totally disagree.

    your score on the black list is already weighted and averaged to get on the top lists and it appears in on your script. but every review stands on it own merit.

    as the writer, you select what is public and what is not.

    it's not about giving a benefit to anyone. it's about trying to treat everyone equally. reviews stand on their own merit, just like it would with a reader at a studio.

    Someone said that would discourage people from looking at the best scripts but you'd still have a '10' category and the 8s and 9s would also be in the 7 to 9 group, so readers wouldn't want to miss them.
    no. that's a bad idea, imo. have you hosted a script on the site yet? have you had one evaluated? once you go through the process, it clears up a lot of confusion.

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  • barh
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    My original question was 'why doesn't Franklin Leonard post here anymore?' If this thread doesn't get him back here, nothing will.

    I see it would be helpful if the names were clearer.

    The Annual Black List could just be "The Black List" and the Black List web site could be "The Black List Script Service" or something that could connect it to the brand name but also clearly distinguish it from the completely separate annual list. Like if they had the Nicholl Competition and the Nicholl Coverage Service or something like that.

    I had suggested on another post that they group together scores, such as 4 to 6 and 7 to 9, so what would previously have been 7s could get more of a 'benefit of the doubt' effect, and more people might read them.

    Someone said that would discourage people from looking at the best scripts but you'd still have a '10' category and the 8s and 9s would also be in the 7 to 9 group, so readers wouldn't want to miss them.

    Leave a comment:

  • finalact4
    Member

  • finalact4
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
    I apologize if you found my post aggressive. I assure you, that wasn't the intention. In fact, my use of "lol" near the beginning is partly an indication that I wasn't annoyed, just amused. Of course, it can be hard to construe one's tone through written statements online, and that's a risk we all run.
    sorry, i have a 17 year-old daughter whose use of LOL is always sarcastic, my bad.

    You said that certain writers only complain because they didn't get an 8. I agreed with you on that point -- so I'm not sure why you followed it up by saying "I stand by what I did say." I never disputed your right to your opinion.
    we agree on many points. i followed up stating that my references were only to those complains and not ALL complaints.

    I will say that there is a bit of a discrepancy between what you said earlier and later. First this:

    [Quote:]
    Originally Posted by finalact4 View Post
    but that's not the general sentiment of most new writers. they're pissed off they didn't get an 8.

    Then this:
    [Quote:]
    Originally Posted by finalact4 View Post
    i do stand by what i did say. and i'm speaking from what i see, from my personal experiences. there are certain writers that are pissed off they didn't receive high scores.

    There is a bit of a gulf between "most new writers" and "certain writers."
    no, upandcoming, you do not get to take what i said out of context and twist it. this is what i was talking about.

    this is what i posted first:*******************************
    i see a lot of, well i got a 5 and it placed in the quarters at Nicholl. they complain that they didn't get an 8 because they thought they were going to get an 8. that's where a writer might be misguided in their own abilities. and instead of rewriting it, to improve it, they complain that they system is rigged.

    if you get four 5s on the black list, guess what, maybe consider it needs a rewrite. when i received 8s and 9s i still rewrote it because i agreed with the review. but that's not the general sentiment of most new writers.

    they're pissed off they didn't get an 8.
    ************************************************** ******
    that was the context of the first post you quote. i am speaking specifically to certain new writers that receive low scores and expected high scores.
    therefore, there is NO gulf. they are one in the same. and if you didn't get that initially, i'm clearing that up here and now.

    if you're going to quote me, please keep it in context and not try to twist it to make your own point. it is both unfair to me and misrepresents what i said.

    In any case, you did indeed agree to my statement that "as a paying service, it would be nice to see some evidence of its tangible benefits on the website rather than just vague claims." So I'm happy to leave all well alone, because I have no argument with you there.
    you've made all the other arguments well enough. i do not feel the need to add to them.

    as far as i'm concerned, we're good. no hard feelings here.

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  • finalact4
    Member

  • finalact4
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by catcon View Post
    I was aware of the award for an 8+, but I assume you get only one (or two, I think) free reviews (or maybe some deal on hosting) for each paid review with an 8.

    But there must be some limit. Let's say you pay for one, get an 8, get a freebie, get an 8 or 9 on it, and it metastasizes on and on. Wouldn't there be situations where there are a hundred or more, for really good scripts?

    Anyway, the post here on DDPro said '22 paid reviews', so I assumed that was the case and that there must be some way to determine this. Thus my question remains: What's the value of so many?
    sorry, catcon, i missed this last part. the value is that it keeps you on the top lists non-stop. so as long as you have two each quarter with high scores you will always remain the the top quarterly list and if you have 4 rolling every year you'll remain on the top list for the annual list. if you receive two new reviews that are high scores you can technically remain on the monthly top list every month. so you are always visible and your script gets sent out each Monday after you get an 8, if you do get an 8.

    as far as i know there is no limit an actually i think they may have designed it that way, though i'm not certain.

    i was shocked myself until i figured it out. some may very well pay for several reviews. i've considered it.

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  • UpandComing
    Member

  • UpandComing
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
    so you know, i find this post by you unnecessarily aggressive.
    I apologize if you found my post aggressive. I assure you, that wasn't the intention. In fact, my use of "lol" near the beginning is partly an indication that I wasn't annoyed, just amused. Of course, it can be hard to construe one's tone through written statements online, and that's a risk we all run.

    Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
    i'm not going to be chased off by someone whose disputing i have a right to my opinion. or am i going to allow someone to put words in my mouth.
    You said that certain writers only complain because they didn't get an 8. I agreed with you on that point -- so I'm not sure why you followed it up by saying "I stand by what I did say." I never disputed your right to your opinion.

    I will say that there is a bit of a discrepancy between what you said earlier and later. First this:

    Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
    but that's not the general sentiment of most new writers. they're pissed off they didn't get an 8.
    Then this:

    Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
    i do stand by what i did say. and i'm speaking from what i see, from my personal experiences. there are certain writers that are pissed off they didn't receive high scores.
    There is a bit of a gulf between "most new writers" and "certain writers."

    In any case, you did indeed agree to my statement that "as a paying service, it would be nice to see some evidence of its tangible benefits on the website rather than just vague claims." So I'm happy to leave all well alone, because I have no argument with you there.

    Leave a comment:

  • finalact4
    Member

  • finalact4
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by ScreenRider View Post
    It's funny you say that because I got an 8 on the Black List and the same script didn't make past the first round in a contest. I also made semi-finals at AFF and then got a 5 on the Black List. I also got a 7 and a 3 on the same script on the Black List.
    imo, a 5 on The Black List is only an indication that a script is not ready, for one reason or another, in that reader's opinion. it doesn't mean that you're not an amazing writer. i think you've already figured that out.

    and you could get a reader in a contest that completely overlooks an amazing script. i think there was a thread where we talked about this, about how someone could enter the same script in the next year and place in the semis.

    i assume you did receive additional reviews because of the disparity between a 7 and a 3? you can look at any number of scripts on the top lists on the Black List and they have reviews they don't show. they have low reviews and high reviews. it's very subjective. all of it is.

    i've always thought of the goal on the black list is to get as many consistent scores as possible. and even when you nail it, it can take a long time to find that one person who loves it.

    different contests have types of films they seem to like. whether it's more of an indy feel or a drama feel, they have their "thing" that is their kind of brand. the writer that wins the TrackingB contest most likely is not the same writer to win Nicholl. if a writer understands the pros and cons of each opportunity, they have a better chance of spending their dollars on more likely opportunities.

    it's funny, that reference just happened last week. haha. my point is at no point did the writer consider (that i could tell) that maybe, just maybe their script needed a rewrite. or maybe they should have another review done? and i don't know that it did or didn't. all i know is that if i got a 5 i'd consider it needed more work. that's just me.


    Not complaining. It's a gamble but the BL is one of the few ways to get your foot in the door. I just don't think industry readers in general are as qualified as people pretend. It's subjective of course, but what I mean is that they are not qualified to pick what their bosses would consider winners.

    It's easy to eliminate the 90% of amateurish scripts but the people who can find the potential in the remaining few get paid a lot more than $50 a script.
    you're probably right, but i think there are some good, talented readers, too.

    i asked an executive once, if they ever disagreed with their reader. this was an executive at a prodco, and she said, "all the time." if she requests the script she reads it, but she also sends it to be covered by their staff reader.

    i don't know how often that happens, but that was encouraging to hear.

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  • catcon
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Again, I bring up one source of info about the BL readers, LinkedIn.

    For those with a LI account (free or paid), try this query:

    LinkedIn - The Black List - current employees - reader in title

    These are 30 out of 55 total employees from 'The Black List', but my filter (for 'reader') may have reduced this too much. But you can check out some of their LI profiles to see what sorts they are. I recall one previously who boasted about doing 3-5 reads per day.

    For the kind of stuff I write? Nobody can process intelligently 3-5 of my scripts per day. Maybe 2, if they bust their a$$es.

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  • finalact4
    Member

  • finalact4
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
    Did you make up this quote and stick my username in there? Because I never said this, and I can't find it anywhere in this or other DDP threads, lol.
    you didn't say it. you're correct.

    i was deleting the text and simply didn't remove the quote/unquote marks and began typing my response. i've never deliberately misrepresented what another writer has said.

    my apologies, upandcoming. i've corrected it in my post.

    this is my statement:
    i haven't disputed that i'd like to see better transparency. i have stated that it would be beneficial to know who, as in their title, has downloaded my script. i pay hosting fees every month, a business person would expect nothing less.


    I didn't say that you specifically said that "all of the complaints we've heard over the years can't just be chalked up to writers being "pissed off they didn't get an 8" (otherwise, I would've put it in quotes).

    actually, you implied it. you made a statement and put what i said in quote marks. if you weren't addressing my comment, why did you put it in quotes? i felt it necessary to correct it, that's all.

    My statement was meant to indicate that the only explanation you seem to bring up for writers' complaints is frustration with not getting an 8. You don't consider any other possible explanations.
    see, you're doing it again. i have never said anything about "all the complaints" you're speaking about. i was giving what i feel some writers do. i did NOT say all writers do this. maybe you're reading too much into my statements.

    i've never said i didn't consider other possible explanations for writer complaints. i wasn't even speaking to "every" or "all" complaints. i was speaking of "specific" comments that i have seen or read from some writers.

    you're inferring a lot about what i think and believe that i haven't written, and i really wish you wouldn't. i was clarifying what i didn't say.

    i'm offering my opinion. you don't have to agree with it.

    Of course I agree that there are certain writers who just complain because they are frustrated with not getting an 8. But it is conspicuous that you spend multiple paragraphs criticizing that, yet do not address any of the specific points I made regarding problematic issues on the BL's part.
    who are you? the paragraph police? who are you to judge how much time i spend on any topic? or whether i address any responses, let alone all of a poster's comments. or what i choose to respond to or not to respond to?

    maybe i'm not speaking only your specific points. maybe i'm adding my own commentary. i don't know, and frankly, i don't care. i don't have time to go review everything i've written. and i don't have to address anything i don't choose to. i have a limited amount of time and i post what i have time for. i said what i wanted to say.

    and more than anything, why do you care what i say? or don't say for that matter?

    You dedicate exactly one word to those arguments: "agreed." So it's clear that you're more focused on any problematic issues on behalf of writers than any potential problems on behalf of the BL.
    i'm sorry i didn't give you more than "exactly one word." i'm not even sure what your point is. no need to explain.

    every time i fight for the information to be corrected on the black list website i am doing it for myself as much as for every other writer who pays to host their scripts, because it's the right thing to do.

    do i like that they don't provide information that i'd like to see? no. have i been vocal about seeing over the course of the years? yes. i've said it many times. i've commented on reviews that clearly seem problematic. i've posted my opinion.

    You have to admit that there appears to be a kind of bias in your responses -- and it wouldn't be that hard to understand, given Tracker's high ranking and status as a Featured Script on the site.
    yeah? and? so what? yeah, i have two scripts that did well. the site works for me. i respect what Franklin has done. it gives writers a platform for their work to be recognized. one that the industry uses. to what extent i have no clue. it's a resource for me. i have never said it is flawless.

    you don't like my opinions on the subject, that's fine. you're entitled to your opinion. don't read and respond to my posts. but i'm not going to be chased off by someone whose disputing i have a right to my opinion. or am i going to allow someone to put words in my mouth.

    i clarified my position where i felt it was necessary. that's all.

    so you know, i find this post by you unnecessarily aggressive.

    i mean, who pissed in your Cheerios today? oh, wait... it "appears" to be me.

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