Franklin Leonard

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    kintnerboy
    Member

  • kintnerboy
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by nguyensquared View Post
    38 pages? This thread really doesn't want to die, does it?

    It would only be 6 pages if we took out all the comments from people complaining about how long it is.

    Leave a comment:


  • DDoc
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by Bono View Post
    Hey guys, don't post if you're not saying something that might start a fight, okay? This isn't page 18... this is page 39!
    Lick my ass you dipshit.























































    Sorry. That didn't feel right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Friday
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by Bono View Post
    Hey guys, don't post if you're not saying something that might start a fight, okay? This isn't page 18... this is page 39!

    How dare you say such a thing. I am super offended by this comment.









    And I'm not just making the comment to push the page count to 40.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bono
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Hey guys, don't post if you're not saying something that might start a fight, okay? This isn't page 18... this is page 39!

    Leave a comment:


  • Friday
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    It's the Predator of threads. Just when you think it's forgotten, another reboot comes around the corner. I am waiting for this to reach a thousand pages.

    Leave a comment:

  • nguyensquared
    User

  • nguyensquared
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    38 pages? This thread really doesn't want to die, does it?

    Leave a comment:


  • sc111
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
    "completely and unfairly mischaracterized-

    sc111, this isn't the first time you have accused me of "mischaracterizing- an opinion of another. You've done it in the logline thread, Gucci's pages thread and others.

    It didn't matter to you that there were other members saying the same thing as me.

    In this thread, Jeff Lowell pointed out how finalact4's opinion was off, considering the benefits she received using The Black List as one of the roads to gain attention and break into the industry.

    finalact4's opinion was that it's a "CRAP SHOOT- in getting a competent TBL reader.

    I asked her what research she did to come to this conclusion, because the man that actually has the figures, Franklin, says the times where there was a wide range of difference in the rating is 4% of all the reviews.

    finalact4 accused me of denying her right to her opinion, but I was only giving my own opinion on the topic and what she said about it. Just like the way she gave her opinions on my opinions.

    sc111, you say about me, "You are the epitome of exhausting! Going on and on and on whenever anyone disagrees with you on even the most minute detail.-

    The serious things that I've been accused of by you and finalact4, I don't consider a "minute detail.-

    Facts: Not counting the ton of posts finalact4 has made in this thread, but just mine directed at her, it's 5. She's directed 7 posts at me.

    5? 5, sc111. You consider this exhausting in a thread with 38 pages and 379 posts?

    You're accusing me of bullshit? No, the only one who smells around here is you.
    Oy-Freaking-Vey squared.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeNYC
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by sc111 View Post
    I was expressing extreme exasperation (ergo the Oy Vey) with the way you completely and unfairly mischaracterized what FA4 said. … Your choice of words, your tone, and use of the word valid was complete bullshit.
    “completely and unfairly mischaracterized”

    sc111, this isn’t the first time you have accused me of "mischaracterizing” an opinion of another. You’ve done it in the logline thread, Gucci’s pages thread and others.

    It didn’t matter to you that there were other members saying the same thing as me.

    In this thread, Jeff Lowell pointed out how finalact4’s opinion was off, considering the benefits she received using The Black List as one of the roads to gain attention and break into the industry.

    finalact4’s opinion was that it’s a “CRAP SHOOT” in getting a competent TBL reader.

    I asked her what research she did to come to this conclusion, because the man that actually has the figures, Franklin, says the times where there was a wide range of difference in the rating is 4% of all the reviews.

    finalact4 accused me of denying her right to her opinion, but I was only giving my own opinion on the topic and what she said about it. Just like the way she gave her opinions on my opinions.

    sc111, you say about me, “You are the epitome of exhausting! Going on and on and on whenever anyone disagrees with you on even the most minute detail.”

    The serious things that I’ve been accused of by you and finalact4, I don’t consider a “minute detail.”

    Facts: Not counting the ton of posts finalact4 has made in this thread, but just mine directed at her, it’s 5. She’s directed 7 posts at me.

    5? 5, sc111. You consider this exhausting in a thread with 38 pages and 379 posts?

    You're accusing me of bullshit? No, the only one who smells around here is you.

    Leave a comment:


  • sc111
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
    An extreme example of this subjectivity is where I mentioned in my “rejection” thread, which sc111 pooh-pooh when I was making this point earlier, that when Quentin Tarrantino turned in his future Oscar winner for Best Screenplay, “Pulp Fiction,” to Columbia he was told, “This is the worst screenplay that this film company has ever been handed.”

    finalact4, yes, I selected you as a reviewer, then you pissed me off, where I promptly unselected you, but after I cooled off, I thought just because you exhaust me in threads like the “BOLD” thread, the “Betsey Ross Flag thread in the ONE ON ONE forum, this thread, etc., it wasn’t fair of me to carry that over about swapping feedback.
    Well... since you mentioned me....

    I wasn't "pooh-poohing" your Rejection Thread when I wrote: Oy freaking vey, Joe up thread. I don't even recall your Rejection Thread.

    I was expressing extreme exasperation (ergo the Oy Vey) with the way you completely and unfairly mischaracterized what FA4 said. You wrote:

    It seems that you're having a hard time in accepting the Black List score of "3" as valid ...so you demand satisfaction: fire this reviewer, retrain this reviewer, keep an eye on this reviewer, etc.
    Your choice of words, your tone, and use of the word valid was complete bullshit. Not to mention I sensed you got a kick out of seeing her taken down several notches from a 9 to a 3 on the same script.

    After that post, you go further and say to her:

    You stood up on the Done Deal pedestal and boldly announced
    Pedestal? Oy freaking Vey.

    And for you to use the word: exhausting to describe any regular user on Done Deal is beyond ironic. You are the epitome of exhausting! Going on and on and on whenever anyone disagrees with you on even the most minute detail.

    For the record, I will say a 3 is NOT valid for anything FA4 writes. Period. I think anyone who has read her pages and short scripts here can objectively see that statement is true.

    On this:

    I selected you as a reviewer, then you pissed me off, where I promptly unselected you,
    Well La-Di-Freaking-Da with a Oy-Freaking-Vey thrown in for good measure.

    FYI: when you decided to "punish" FA4 because she pissed you off and retracted your offer to read "Tinder," simultaneously denying her the exalted honor of reading your script, I promptly PMd her.

    I told her she dodged a bullet. And I offered her a read which she accepted. And I'm glad I did. Because I know you would be incapable of seeing how fresh her concept is for the rom-com genre. How perfect it is for the mid-to-young millennial generation.

    With your humorless, yeoman approach to screenwriting, you simply wouldn't get it. Worse -- you would attempt to hammer her into submission if she failed to take your every note as gospel.

    Get over yourself, Joe.

    Leave a comment:

  • finalact4
    Member

  • finalact4
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
    I didn't want to be involved anymore, but I must address this.

    You put emphasis on "SWAP," because technically you didn't use the word "SWAP."

    In your PM to me, dated 3/22/2019, 10:17 pm, subject header: "Rom Com Spec: March Madness: Tinder Sweet 16, you used the word, "repay." You offered to repay me back.

    If your definition of "repay" has nothing to do with reviewing one of my screenplays in return, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.
    at the point you offered to read my script you did not ask me to read yours. but, yes, i would have wanted to return the favor, absolutely. but after you withdrew your offer i did not ask you to read my script and i declined to read yours. regardless, the point is moot. sorry for the confusion.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeNYC
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by finalact4 View Post

    at no time did we agree to SWAP feedback.
    I didn't want to be involved anymore, but I must address this.

    You put emphasis on "SWAP," because technically you didn't use the word "SWAP."

    In your PM to me, dated 3/22/2019, 10:17 pm, subject header: "Rom Com Spec: March Madness: Tinder Sweet 16, you used the word, "repay." You offered to repay me back.

    If your definition of "repay" has nothing to do with reviewing one of my screenplays in return, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.

    Leave a comment:

  • finalact4
    Member

  • finalact4
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
    This is why you exhaust me. This will be my last post to you on this topic. No guarantees about future topics.

    finalact4, you say, “What you want to use for your purposes and take it out of context in doing so, imo.”

    You stood up on the Done Deal pedestal and boldly announced: “so i’m here to retract previous glowing reviews of TBL website. Not afraid to admit when i’m wrong.”
    actually, that's NOT what happened. i posted a comment directed to two specific people on this board that i had previous discussions with. i have continued to give the black list credit. i expressed my disappointment. maybe you should reread what i said, but i doubt that will help you in any way.

    You’re making a sweeping generalization that TBL, as a whole, has incompetent reviewers and that their scoring criteria is flawed.
    bullsh!t. i voiced an opinion about a service i use, that i paid for. do you normally go around on AMAZON and criticize customer's opinions when the don't agree with you? because that's akin to what you're doing here.

    it is my review of a service. your opinion on the matter holds little weight with me, because you're not offering an opinion based on experience using the same site. are you? have you? i respect that you have an opinion, but whether that opinion carries any weight with me is my choice.


    Now, you may say I’m taking what you’ve said out of context -- again. You may say you never said you’re talking about TBL as a whole, but sorry, that’s what your statement implies.
    yes, again, again, again.

    if people want to know what i said and what i mean they can ask me to clarify. i've clarified my intent several times, there should no longer be any sense of my IMPLYING anything. i've outright clarified it. my experience is that in recent times the quality of evaluations have declined, imo. i'm not alone in that opinion.


    What analysis and research did you use to make this bold statement? You heard a few writers complain about the difference in the range of their scores? You did your own personal test by submitting a screenplay?
    are you serious, joe? first, i don't have to prove anything to you. what are you, the opinion police?

    second, i am offering my opinion first and foremost. not other writer's opinions. i have, when asked to expand, shared other writer's experiences, too. take it for what it is. an offering of information.

    i've stated over and over again this is my experience from paying and using the site for years. i've talked with other writers who have similar experiences. and yes, i did a personal test. i thought i made that clear.


    Jeff Lowell pointed out that Franklin said scores “that diverged by more than 2 points only accounted for 4% of submissions.”

    I don’t know how many hundreds or thousands of scripts TBL receives over the year, but considering, don’t you think 4% ain’t bad.

    finalact4, you say, “When we look at reviews and rating I’d expect that a well written script, at the most could maybe receive a disparity of maybe 2, but mostly one rating difference. There should be an established set of standards, criteria, and guidelines. It seriously can’t or shouldn’t be what ever the **** the reader thinks that day.”

    yes, joe, that's my opinion. if you have a different opinion, stand on your own words instead of attacking mine. i don't care if you agree with me or not. have YOU used TBL, joe?

    to further clarify, i beleive... a professional reader is PAID to provide an "objective professional opinion" that evaluates the material on its merits alone. they are NOT PAID to give "personal" opinions loaded w/their biases and prejudices. it's an opinion about the facts. journalists do and so can they. therefore, most scoring should and can, be written with guidelines or standards in mind. the spread should be clustered closely. as far as "art" is concerned, movies are "entertainment" first and foremost-- movies are intended to appeal to the masses, it's intended to make money. yes, subjectivity is a real aspect of opinion, but the goal of a professional reader is to mitigate that [subjectivity] as much as possible and evaluated the strengths, weaknesses and prospects of the plot, characters, dialogue, premise and setting.


    What you’re looking for is perfection, but you’re forgetting an important equation: Humans are not computers where you could punch in a program. Humans are not cloned to be alike. There unique with their own essence, thoughts, etc.
    please, don't put words in my mouth, again. i'm looking for better consistency, which i've stated over and over again. did you get it that time?

    i'm not forgetting anything, joe. please STOP telling me what i am and am not doing. stand on your own opinion. let others decide whether my opinion helps them or not.


    The point of all of this comes down to one word: subjectivity. A writer may not like the outcome of someone’s subjectivity, but that’s what it is.

    An extreme example of this subjectivity is where I mentioned in my “rejection” thread, which sc111 pooh-pooh when I was making this point earlier, that when Quentin Tarrantino turned in his future Oscar winner for Best Screenplay, “Pulp Fiction,” to Columbia he was told, “This is the worst screenplay that this film company has ever been handed.”
    yeah, honestly, i am often aligned with sc111's opinions and am more inclined to agree with, sc111, so i'll just chalk that one up to "time saved," and skip the read.

    what's funny is that you cry, "opinions are all subjective," but as soon as someone disagrees with you, you attack their opinion instead of expressing your own. like, seriously, joe, why throw sc111 into THIS conversation? it's downright juvenile.

    finalact4, yes, I selected you as a reviewer, then you pissed me off, where I promptly unselected you, but after I cooled off, I thought just because you exhaust me in threads like the “BOLD” thread, the “Betsey Ross Flag thread in the ONE ON ONE forum, this thread, etc., it wasn’t fair of me to carry that over about swapping feedback.
    um, that's not the way i remember it. i pissed you off, you were being "moody" you said one thing on the board, that "maybe i can't handle your review because you're brutal and i'm too sensitive," (paraphrasing) then within moments of that post, you sent me a PM withdrawing you offer to review my script. remember that? i called you to account on it, too.

    i can't stand that kind of two faced BS. yeah, that's an opinion, too.

    and finally, let's be clear. you offered to read my script and give me notes, which i sincerely thanked you for. i did not ask you to read my script. when you came back a bit later and still offered to read it, again, i declined. i had already 6 other readers reading my script.

    then you asked me to read your script and offer you notes. i declined. at no time did we agree to SWAP feedback.

    here's a suggestion, joe. ignore my posts. if you disagree, use your own words and arguments as to what you believe based on your opinion. i don't need you to interpret my words for me. and neither does anyone else.

    be well.
    FA4

    finalact4
    Member
    Last edited by finalact4; 09-14-2019, 10:29 AM.

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  • Bono
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Well said FA4.

    Also I should add that most of my points on this or any topic can boil down to -- if you think this is bad and unfair and not transparent -- it only gets worse the closer you get to being a successful writer.

    Just be prepared to be even more frustrated that you already are. Your spec can go wide and die on a vine -- 3 years of hard work just gone in 48 hours -- no idea why. NO feedback... just gone!

    There is safety in knowing the rules and how to play the game. But the real game of Hollywood has no rules. There is no A to Z. No clear paint by numbers. No logic really. No numbers when you get out there... just yes or no.... and that can change every second on same project....

    Somewhere there is a list of writers who tried. And a list of writers who made it all the way. And it's a very small list of writers who can have a career for more than a hot minute. This is the reality! It sucks.

    If you have a backup career, save yourself. I don't. I wish I did. I don't think I'm going to make it. But I can't stop trying either. I wish I could quit it.

    Good Luck. I'm done.

    Leave a comment:

  • finalact4
    Member

  • finalact4
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by Friday View Post
    Thanks for unpacking all this. For the uninitiated who know about the Blacklist, but never used it, all the little ins and outs about hosting, newsletters is a little confusing.



    So, if you get an 8, wouldn't it be better just to stand pat....not risk another review where a reviewer could give a lower score? Of all those listed, I'd probably only want managers and their assistants to be downloading. I don't think any big name actors are really downloading stuff, neither are big name directors.
    no, because all one 8 gets you is on the weekly email letter. everyone may not read every single week's email because they're on vaca, traveling in production...

    to get on the weekly, monthly and quarterly lists you need TWO evaluations or an industry pro's rating (which is not equal, it's worth less even if it is an 8) pretty sure that's still the way.

    if you get two 8s out of the gate i'd sit pat, or even a combo of 8/7, 8/8, 8/6, those will all keep you on the list.

    you can't get on the yearly list unless you have four ratings that give you an average above the community during that timeframe.


    to all who cares to listen: my only point when contributing to this thread is to provide an opinion about a service i have used for several years. i am offering this information up to help you make an informed and educated decision with your money and your writing.

    i am in no way telling anyone not to use the service or to use it. i share why i do use it, how it's helped me and what my concerns are as a patron to the service site. you decide whether its of value to you or not. you decide where you spend your money, it's not my business. for me, this is about managing expectations and the more you know, hopefully, the better decisions you can make and anticipate the return/reward.

    what i don't appreciate is when someone claims i'm saying something i'm not. or twists my words into something that does not align with my intentions. i've found myself baited into an argument with someone who disagrees with my experience. i'm fine with disagreements. i'm not looking for anyone to agree with me. we can't and don't all agree.

    the only thing i would say, is that if you want to know what I SAID, read MY POSTS and not the interpretation of someone who doesn't like what i have to say and often mischaracterizes them, imo. if i misstate something or it comes off as not intended that's one thing, i'm happy to clarify, but what i won't do is argue with someone who continues to attack my words over and over again like a pit bull with an old sock, or referring to me by name as if i'm not in the room. it's childish and petty.

    my intention is not to offend. i'm here to help with my limited experience. i'm here to learn from others that have more experience.

    good luck on your projects
    .
    finalact4
    Member
    Last edited by finalact4; 09-14-2019, 09:02 AM.

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  • figment
    replied
    Re: Franklin Leonard

    Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
    Someone posted the Verve Coverage Guide on r/screenwriting the other day and it mentions the BL specifically in regard to how the go about covering scripts.

    The Blacklist is a company that monitors unrepresented writers with unsolicited materials. Generally, the material is not strong enough to be considered for representation but, sometimes, there is an excellent screenplay or writer waiting to be discovered. More often than not, these submissions are a pass. If so, you will probably know within the first 30 or 40 pages.

    So while they are getting subs from the BL, they're looking at them with a jaundiced eye. The implication is pretty clear: aside from a rare exception, they don't see BL scripts as being ready for primetime. If that's the prevailing attitude at a mid-tier agency that is more writer-friendly than most, it's not hard to imagine how CAA or WME might feel.
    This would/should cause many who are querying to not even mention their BL placement, I would think, in order to not prejudice the coverage giver even more? Is that how you took it? Or that the company itself is sometimes assigning a BL (website) script to cover, because it might interest them, and in that case... why is anyone even using the BL if its already a pariah to some agencies. Either way, holy cow.



    ETA: You're missing the forest for the trees.

    Per the above quote -- it doesn't matter what you think of the BL if AGENCIES think very little of the BL.
    Last edited by figment; 09-14-2019, 02:42 PM.

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