Franklin Leonard

[JoeNYC]

Re: Franklin Leonard

so i'm here to retract previous glowing reviews of TBL website. not afraid to admit when i'm wrong.

What I said... was in reaction to your strong statement in the highlighted quote.

You say the "3" score was just an example. Okay, nevertheless, my post is still valid if you are only able to get past thinking that this is all about YOU and think of the other writers who had a hard time in the past about a low score, where they support their right to being upset by saying my peers reviewed it, said it was great, it advanced in big screenplay competitions, etc.

My post was not directed just at finalact4. It was directed at all the members of Done Deal who have entered this thread to get my point across, which is the following:

Just because a writer's script was scored a "3," when there was evidence to the contrary that it should not have been, doesn't necessarily mean the reviewer was not component, or that there are flaws and weaknesses in the criteria of scoring with the Black List system.

The writer must take the matter of "subjectivity" into account.

Franklin says The Black List readers are professional industry readers and that they were vetted. Is it possible for a few clunkers to sneak through? Yes. If you feel you're score wasn't valid, point it out to the Black List so they could investigate, but don't automatically assume it was because the reviewer was not component, or the reviewing criteria is at fault.

[UpandComing]

Re: Franklin Leonard

Well you're looking at this wrong. You think because I never used it, I can't possibly offer my opinion on if you should continue to use it. But I never fired a gun either and I'm for gun control. Yes, extreme example, but you get it... Maybe I can see something that people in the group can't see themselves because they keep getting the little bit of cheese, but can't tell that they are being kept in a cage in a lab. Sometimes it takes an outsider to show you the way...

It's only costing you money, but I do not get why you and others would continue to use a service (even if it helped you at some point) again and again and again if you're unhappy with it.

You got something out of it. Great. Move on is my suggestion.

Because you won't admit to yourself that you're counting on the BL being your gateway in... otherwise you wouldn't keep using it...

Simple as that. As long as you know what you're doing, that's fine. I'm just worried that you guys and gals don't even realize it.

It's not that I think you can't offer your opinion. It's that I think that you are less likely to understand what BL customers perceive as its benefits unless you have.

I still think you don't understand my position. I like many aspects of the service. I like that it only takes 2-3 weeks to get feedback. I like that if you manage to get a high enough score, it gets sent out to a membership of thousands. I like that besides the cost, there is a low barrier to entry.

Just because I am unhappy with certain aspects of the service, does not mean I am unhappy with the service as a whole. It's possible to criticize a service and still consider it worth a try overall.

I can name only 2 success stories and one of them was this week... Done Deal has done much more for writers!

This only makes it more clear to me that you are not very familiar with the BL's outcomes. There have been at least a dozen articles published in the trades about people who have received options, studio deals, or representation through the site. That doesn't include comments on forums by writers mentioning their personal successes with the site.

[UpandComing]

Re: Franklin Leonard

I don't know if you're including me in your "two of the people" point. I just reread my comments and my initial point was questioning how much objectivity one could reasonably expect when (as Lowell said) evaluating art is a completely subjective process.

By the same token, I discussed how much professionalism one could reasonably expect from a reader being paid $30 per script.

That's not telling people "just stop using BL" but rather talking about managing expectations if one decides to continue using it.

I reread your statements, and now I see that I indeed mischaracterized your words. My mistake.

[finalact4]

Re: Franklin Leonard

No. Not Jewish but love the subtext of Oy Vey.

me too, always have.

[sc111]

Re: Franklin Leonard

Wait a minute, do we have a Bat Mitzvah girl in the house???? 10 out of 10!

No. Not Jewish but love the subtext of Oy Vey.

[Bono]

Re: Franklin Leonard

Oy freaking vey, Joe.

Wait a minute, do we have a Bat Mitzvah girl in the house???? 10 out of 10!

[finalact4]

Re: Franklin Leonard

3 or 10 -- it's still $5 bucks! Paypal me.

fair 'nough.

[sc111]

Re: Franklin Leonard

It seems that you're having a hard time in accepting the Black List score of "3" as valid, considering other reviewers found it to be worthy of a score of "9," so you demand satisfaction: fire this reviewer, retrain this reviewer, keep an eye on this reviewer, etc.

It seems you missed my thread on "rejection." ..

Oy freaking vey, Joe.

[sc111]

Re: Franklin Leonard

you mean, originally? i sent a bunch of queries out and had about twenty read requests. i used the black list scores of 8s and 9s in the subject line with the title. two of the people that requested it read it in 24-48 hours and called me, i went with the first one, not knowing any better.

i've only had three read requests out of hundreds of queries sent. one pass. crickets from the other two. sending the next spec out this week. sending another wave for Tracker out too.

Tinder should be ready in a couple of weeks. i keep getting derailed by other things. tomorrow. solid writing day. after the DMV ugh.

Got it. I took it that you got offers from reps from Blacklist alone. As in, "Love your BL script. Can I rep you." Thanks for explaining.

[Bono]

Re: Franklin Leonard

3 or 10 -- it's still $5 bucks! Paypal me.

[finalact4]

Re: Franklin Leonard

Fine you all convinced me, I have an extra $30 bucks a month to host a screenplay so some 19 year old high school kid can tell me it sucks. Why didn't I do this before? Thanks, everyone!

This joke is a 5 out of 10. I'm not giving you guys A material for free. You have to pay. $5 bucks a joke.

it's a 3 at best

[Bono]

Re: Franklin Leonard

Fine you all convinced me, I have an extra $30 bucks a month to host a screenplay so some 19 year old high school kid can tell me it sucks. Why didn't I do this before? Thanks, everyone!

This joke is a 5 out of 10. I'm not giving you guys A material for free. You have to pay. $5 bucks a joke.

[finalact4]

Re: Franklin Leonard

It seems that you're having a hard time in accepting the Black List score of "3" as valid, considering other reviewers found it to be worthy of a score of "9," so you demand satisfaction: fire this reviewer, retrain this reviewer, keep an eye on this reviewer, etc.

It seems you missed my thread on "rejection."

A lot of great writers had their worked panned before someone saw the magic on the page and championed it, where it became a huge critical and commercial success.

WARNING. CLICHE ALERT!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I know a "3" is hard to accept because it means, in this ONE reviewer's subjected opinion, the majority of the major elements were weak: concept, world, character, dialogue, theme, structure, pacing, set pieces, etc.

Assuming this reviewer has been vetted, competent and enjoys the genre, then I suggest that you chalk it up to the subjectivity of the business and move on.

Otherwise, this emotional baggage will distract you from concentrating on your work and achieving your goal of becoming a professional screenwriter.

whoa, JoeNYC, chill, dude. haha you're shoving a lot of assumptions my way. what i said wasn't about my rating 9 to a 3. i was using that as an example of disparity, which actually should have been 9 - 4. it was in response to JL.

i will offer that in one review i receive a 9 for dialogue and in another i received a 2. that's just crazy. most of the time reviews are within 1 or 2 points of each other. there are weird outliers, though.

actually, i'm not demanding anything. my action is to NOT take them up on their offer for a discounted review and will suspend my script when the free monthly hosting (offered b/c of a previous review) is over.

i'm offering an opinion about the quality and consistency of the evaluations over time. i'm not talking about just one review. this review was already a replacement review for a subpar review where the reader made blatant errors. i'm sharing my experience and voicing my frustration with others that pay for the service. i'm not alone, there are many complaints.

have you ever used the site, JoeNYC? are you speaking from experience at using the site?

i understand subjectivity. i accept rejection. and i can still have an opinion about whether or not i believe that a paid service of which i am a patron has degraded over time or not.

it's too easy to say, "chalk it up..." the way change happens is when enough people voice their opinion and someone sees the value in it.

i don't need to read your thread to understand rejection. i receive it, accept it and handle it just fine.

it's not about one review, Joe. it just happens that the 3 stands out. there are other issues.

how about if you do what you think it right, and i do what i think is right and we just respect each other. if i feel a service i'm paying for is not living up to it's claim or my expectation based on previous experience, i'm going to say something about it. that's my prerogative.

"emotional baggage?" you're hilarious.

[finalact4]

Re: Franklin Leonard

I was wondering -- did you accept any of the rep offers you received? If you'd rather not share details publically, I understand.

you mean, originally? i sent a bunch of queries out and had about twenty read requests. i used the black list scores of 8s and 9s in the subject line with the title. two of the people that requested it read it in 24-48 hours and called me, i went with the first one, not knowing any better.

i've only had three read requests out of hundreds of queries sent. one pass. crickets from the other two. sending the next spec out this week. sending another wave for Tracker out too.

Tinder should be ready in a couple of weeks. i keep getting derailed by other things. tomorrow. solid writing day. after the DMV ugh.

[JoeNYC]

Re: Franklin Leonard

not as bad as difference between a 9 and a 3.

It seems that you're having a hard time in accepting the Black List score of "3" as valid, considering other reviewers found it to be worthy of a score of "9," so you demand satisfaction: fire this reviewer, retrain this reviewer, keep an eye on this reviewer, etc.

It seems you missed my thread on "rejection."

A lot of great writers had their worked panned before someone saw the magic on the page and championed it, where it became a huge critical and commercial success.

WARNING. CLICHE ALERT!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I know a "3" is hard to accept because it means, in this ONE reviewer's subjected opinion, the majority of the major elements were weak: concept, world, character, dialogue, theme, structure, pacing, set pieces, etc.

Assuming this reviewer has been vetted, competent and enjoys the genre, then I suggest that you chalk it up to the subjectivity of the business and move on.

Otherwise, this emotional baggage will distract you from concentrating on your work and achieving your goal of becoming a professional screenwriter.