Sunni/Shiite question...

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  • Sunni/Shiite question...

    I want to understand the basics of the sectarian violence in Iraq a little better. Figured all you fine people could help me out. From what I understand the Sunni's are the larger group of Islam and feel persecuted and 'demonized' by Western culture (invasion) since WWI and they split with the Shiites after Muhammed died, both having seperate ideas on the religion.

    So that's really as much as I understand. Where did the civil war really start to escalate? I understand Osama is Sunni and wanted us to 'taste what his people went through for 80 years' but when did the Shiites become such a huge target for so much violence, and why? I can only assume if from some Western alliance? I try to stay engaged with this particular part of the war but I've clearly lost track somewhere. Anyone care to explain?

    And I appologize if my facts are off, or if I offended any Muslims out there, I'm really quite ignorant regarding the split and fallout.

    Thanks for the help.

  • #2
    Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d/Timebomb.jpg

    They hate good music, man, that's all there is about it.

    http://www.milnet.com/mid-east-news/...vs-Shiite.html
    sigpic
    "As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world -
    that is the myth of the atomic age - as in being able to remake ourselves."
    -Mahatma Gandhi.

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    • #3
      Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

      Looking for something a little more objective, but thanks

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      • #4
        Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

        Given the fact people fight on this site over loglines and whether writers or producers have tougher jobs, I pray that we don't have a lot of Muslims on the board.

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        • #5
          Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

          this is a pretty quick explanation of it:

          http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4750320.stm

          Originally posted by Marine66 View Post
          Given the fact people fight on this site over loglines and whether writers or producers have tougher jobs, I pray that we don't have a lot of Muslims on the board.
          b/c the pro-war crowd here could never be obnoxious right?

          p.s. muslims arent the only ones who opposed this war.

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          • #6
            Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

            I'm not sure whether the West's propensity for meddling in Middle Eastern affairs has anything to do with the core Sunni-Shiite conflict. It's a religious schism stemming from a neverending and passionate argument over who should have succeeded the prophet Mohammed (1200+ years ago?). The Sunnites supported the first three caliphs (Muslim civil and religious rulers) while the Shiites argued that the fourth caliph, Ali, is the only legitimate successor, and that the imam, the leader of Islam, must be Ali's descendant.

            Gotta love Discovery Channel.

            -Derek
            My web page!​

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            • #7
              Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

              Originally posted by dpaterso View Post
              I'm not sure whether the West's propensity for meddling in Middle Eastern affairs has anything to do with the core Sunni-Shiite conflict. It's a religious schism stemming from a neverending and passionate argument over who should have succeeded the prophet Mohammed (1200+ years ago?). The Sunnites supported the first three caliphs (Muslim civil and religious rulers) while the Shiites argued that the fourth caliph, Ali, is the only legitimate successor, and that the imam, the leader of Islam, must be Ali's descendant.

              Gotta love Discovery Channel.

              -Derek
              And what's with this whole Hindu-Moslem thing I saw in "Gandhi?"

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              • #8
                Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

                Just like the Israelis vs the Palestinians and the Irish Catholics vs. Protestants, the violence isn't about their religious differences per se. It's about which group holds power, which group gets how much of the resources (in this case, oil revenues) and who did what to whom.

                I'm not good at keeping straight which Moslems are which, but the party that was in power when Saddam was in didn't want to lose power. The ones they subjugated resented it, and they are fighting over how power and money will be divvied up now. Plus one group bombed the other's mosque, and they have been getting back at each other with similar attacks ever since. You attacked us, so we'll attack you, which will make you even madder...

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                • #9
                  Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

                  Originally posted by Marine66
                  And what's with this whole Hindu-Moslem thing I saw in "Gandhi?"
                  Oh that's just a fashion dispute, one group says orange is the new black, the other claims black will always be "in," but both sides agree catwalk models are harlots.

                  -Derek
                  My web page!​

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                  • #10
                    Iraq Question

                    Originally posted by alveraz View Post
                    I want to understand the basics of the sectarian violence in Iraq a little better....

                    Where did the civil war really start to escalate?
                    Tho one major faction, (the Kurds), had already established their control of northern Iraq, the sectarian violence between the Sunni and Shi'a erupted when the Baath party lost control of the government in the rest of Iraq. The invading forces failed to disarm the remnants of the Iraqi military, to secure abandoned weapon stockpiles, and to ensure that law and order were maintained by a police force. Disparate groups, (which had been united in their opposition to Saddam Hussein and which had been ruthlessly suppressed by the Baath party), quickly armed themselves to pursue their other agendas, (including fighting criminals, opposing groups, and repelling foreign invaders). Many Iraqis turned to their local mosques and tribal leaders for leadership, (rather than the interim government set up by foreigners and its successor "elected" government, which has been endlessly squabbling about who controls what). Western news media have difficulty identifying the many factions, so it's easier to dumb-down the complex situation and say that the "Sunni" and "Shiite" groups are fighting a "civil war," while "insurgents," ("Saddam loyalists" and "terrorists"), continue to attack civilians, the government, and foreign military. The situation is made more difficult when a supposedly secular police force and military forces are infiltrated by members of various militias and terrorists.

                    Who would the ordinary Iraqi turn to for protection in the midst of his country's chaotic conditions? Foreign military, who are unfamiliar with the local language and religious customs? The local police, who often lack the arms and initiative to patrol the streets, and who may secretly be members of an opposing militia or criminal gang? Or, maybe, the guys at the local mosque, who speak the language, belong to the same religious sect, and have a stache of weapons? One might not wonder what choice would be made, (if one's old corrupt police force disappeared overnight and was replaced by a new, inadequate police force infiltrated by rival biker gangs). It's not really a "civil war" between two opposing forces, (Sunni and Shi'a), but, rather a multitude of political, tribal, and criminal factions, who are most readily identified by their religious leadership. For example, when was the last time the American news media reported on the rift between Muqtada al-Sadr and Ali al-Sistani, (both being prominent Shi'a clerics in Iraq)?

                    It's not a simple situtation, so do a bit of research, elsewhere. DD is about screenwriting.
                    JEKYLL & CANADA (free .mp4 download @ Vimeo.com)

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                    • #11
                      Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

                      Originally posted by alveraz View Post
                      Looking for something a little more objective, but thanks
                      Dude: people are blowing innocent women and kids up with suicide bombs ... devout Muslims are burning other devout Muslims up alive in Mosques ... and you're looking for something 'a little more objective' ???

                      Yeah, I got it was slanted ... but no one else had answered, and mine seemed like it had good wiki footnotes and references for ya to look into (if you wanted)

                      Devil's advocate rant begins:

                      It's all about synthesis.

                      You hear one perspective, then you hear the other opposing or alternative perspective. You learn the varying facts ... then you synthesize.

                      When you ask for 'something more objective' ... you're asking for someone else to do the heavy lifting of synthesis and objectivity FOR YOU?

                      The motives of suicide bombers may elude your need for 'objective' understanding.

                      But ... it's all good. Glad to help.
                      sigpic
                      "As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world -
                      that is the myth of the atomic age - as in being able to remake ourselves."
                      -Mahatma Gandhi.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

                        one pov is that Iran is exploiting the power vacuum to extend Shi'ism from the "Persian" Gulf to the shores of the Med... Syria is ethnically Sunni but is becoming inceasingly polarised and has aligned itself politically with the ****tes (for example, they have a mutual defence treaty with Iran). This in part explains Jordan, Egyptian and Saudi support of Israel during the war with Hezbollah--the Sunnis and Wahhabis fear the ascedncy of a "Shiite Crescent" of which the Lebanon would be a part. Iraq, of course, is crucuial, which helps explain the Iranian-led insugency and Syria's porous Iraqi border...

                        substitute Soviet with Islamist, Moscow with Tehran, Stettin with Kabul and Trieste with Beirut:

                        From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic an iron curtain has descended across the Continent. Behind that line lie all the capitals of the ancient states of Central and Eastern Europe. Warsaw, Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Budapest, Belgrade, Bucharest and Sofia; all these famous cities and the populations around them lie in what I must call the Soviet sphere, and all are subject, in one form or another, not only to Soviet influence but to a very high and in some cases increasing measure of control from Moscow.
                        The Complete IfilmPro DEVELOPMENT FORUM (PDF)

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                        • #13
                          Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

                          guess I misspelled shiite.
                          The Complete IfilmPro DEVELOPMENT FORUM (PDF)

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                          • #14
                            Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

                            Thanks guys, tons to chew on. Hey tabula, relax

                            -a

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                            • #15
                              Re: Sunni/Shiite question...

                              Originally posted by alveraz View Post
                              Thanks guys, tons to chew on. Hey tabula, relax
                              -a
                              But ... if we 'relax' ... the slackers will win!
                              sigpic
                              "As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world -
                              that is the myth of the atomic age - as in being able to remake ourselves."
                              -Mahatma Gandhi.

                              Comment

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