Bad Research... in development

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  • Bad Research... in development

    So, I am on some other boards today where a person who is involved in development was ranting about the 28 year old actress who hung herself (or is it hanged?) - and how it *had* to be murder because women did not hang themselves, they took pills. That sounded reasonable to me, but what do I know about how people kill themselves? So I spent 10 seconds Googling and got....

    "In 2004, hanging/suffocation was the most common method among females in all three age groups, accounting for 71.4% of suicides in the group aged 10--14 years, 49% in the group aged 15--19 years, and 34.2% in the group aged 20--24 years."

    Now, it's a few years old, and I could have probably found last year's stats had I spent 15 seconds Googling, but I suspect the numbers aren't going to be too much different. So, women do seem to hang themselves.

    Again and again I have had scripts that I did a bunch of research on accused of getting the facts wrong. And it was the development people who had done *zero* research saying this. Now - not everything is factual in a script - things get bent for drama or to make the story cleaner. But those are never the things I get called on - I get called on the stuff that is *correct*. In one case, I had facts I lifted from an FBI report and put in a character's mouth *changed* to be completely wrong info - and no matter how hard I fought it (even with the actual FBI report) I lost. Even though part of telling a story *is* bending reality so that it seems more real, this is usually not the case. Instead it's what someone believes to be correct when they have no idea what they are talking about. Like all women killing themselves with pills.

    Imagine your script goes to this person and you have a woman hang herself... and that bit of "unrealistic behavior" is what earns your script a pass?

    Or you fight... and lose... and have to change accurate info to become just plain obviously wrong?

    That stuff pisses me off.

    Can't they just take 10 seconds to Google before they give you that note?

    - Bill
    Free Script Tips:
    http://www.scriptsecrets.net

  • #2
    Re: Bad Research... in development

    It was good to hear your reaction to this, wcmartell.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bad Research... in development

      It's a "clean" way to die, hanging. As far as I know, women don't like to leave messes. Even if they slit their wrists, they do it in the tub, so as to not leave too much a mess for someone to clean.

      A woman thinks of the "scene" she leaves behind. That's why a woman, generally, will not put a gun in her mouth and pull the trigger. If she shoots herself, it's in the gut or the temple.

      I was good friends with our county's coroner; that's what he told me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bad Research... in development

        I had done some research about F.B.I. profiling and such, seems that women will poison someone before they will shoot them. They will shoot themselves in the heart as to where a man will shoot himself in the head. Really interesting stuff, really.

        But yeah, Bill, for someone to say it's unrealistic and didn't do a 10-second Google search, inexcusable.

        Did you know that 50% of women in jail are in there because of a man in their life?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bad Research... in development

          Originally posted by Charli View Post
          Did you know that 50% of women in jail are in there because of a man in their life?
          That's so romantic!

          - Bill
          Free Script Tips:
          http://www.scriptsecrets.net

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bad Research... in development

            Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
            That's so romantic!

            - Bill
            The end is too damn nigh.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bad Research... in development

              i have to wonder whether women avoid messy suicides to be considerate or considered after death.

              for myself, i'm not so obliging as to worry about doing the dishes or mopping the floor before exiting this life; but (here's one from a girl) - a bad hair day just sucks.
              life happens
              despite a few cracked pots-
              and random sunlight

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bad Research... in development

                Bill, you're so right. Not only are many, many people too lazy to check facts -- and really don't care -- their reading comprehesion is surprisingly lax as well.

                (And just today there is news that British actress Lucy Gordon hanged herself in Paris)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bad Research

                  Originally posted by Charli View Post
                  Did you know that 50% of women in jail are in there because of a man in their life?
                  And, the other 50 percent? Bad hair days?
                  JEKYLL & CANADA (free .mp4 download @ Vimeo.com)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bad Research... in development

                    Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
                    So, I am on some other boards today where a person who is involved in development was ranting about the 28 year old actress who hung herself (or is it hanged?) - and how it *had* to be murder because women did not hang themselves, they took pills. That sounded reasonable to me, but what do I know about how people kill themselves? So I spent 10 seconds Googling and got....

                    "In 2004, hanging/suffocation was the most common method among females in all three age groups, accounting for 71.4% of suicides in the group aged 10--14 years, 49% in the group aged 15--19 years, and 34.2% in the group aged 20--24 years."

                    Now, it's a few years old, and I could have probably found last year's stats had I spent 15 seconds Googling, but I suspect the numbers aren't going to be too much different. So, women do seem to hang themselves.

                    Again and again I have had scripts that I did a bunch of research on accused of getting the facts wrong. And it was the development people who had done *zero* research saying this. Now - not everything is factual in a script - things get bent for drama or to make the story cleaner. But those are never the things I get called on - I get called on the stuff that is *correct*. In one case, I had facts I lifted from an FBI report and put in a character's mouth *changed* to be completely wrong info - and no matter how hard I fought it (even with the actual FBI report) I lost. Even though part of telling a story *is* bending reality so that it seems more real, this is usually not the case. Instead it's what someone believes to be correct when they have no idea what they are talking about. Like all women killing themselves with pills.

                    Imagine your script goes to this person and you have a woman hang herself... and that bit of "unrealistic behavior" is what earns your script a pass?

                    Or you fight... and lose... and have to change accurate info to become just plain obviously wrong?

                    That stuff pisses me off.

                    Can't they just take 10 seconds to Google before they give you that note?

                    - Bill
                    In their defence, if a reader thinks (mistakenly) that what you've researched is incorrect, people in the audience might (mistakenly) think it too and no-one's gonna be Googling anything whilst watching your movie.

                    I suppose you could have a character literally spell it out in dialogue ("Don't look so surprised. It's actually the most common method of suicide amongst young females.")

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bad Research... in development

                      Footnote to Bill M.: it is indeed "hanged". A person is hanged, a picture is hung.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bad Research... in development

                        Bill,

                        In my career in the military and LE, I personally handled 4 crime scenes of women who hanged themselves. In fact, in the last 3 years several Korean actresses have also done so. I often get an ignorant reader who will say to me, that is not realistic or that couldn't happen. I bitch slap them everytime with the evidence.
                        "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived." - General George S. Patton, Jr.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bad Research... in development

                          I think we can all be guilty of thinking we know 'facts' which are in fact incorrect, so I can understand a reader thinking something is unrealistic.

                          In another thread in here, somebody mentioned getting reader feedback to the effect that a plane could not fly with a bent propeller. Turns out the writer is an experienced pilot and knows for a fact that planes can indeed fly with bent propellers. But if I had been the reader, I probably would also have (wrongly) assumed this was not possible.

                          If however you then go out of your way to present evidence to show that you are in fact correct and they still accuse you of being wrong? Well, that's just stupid. Probably ego coming into play.

                          Bill, when you presented the development folks with the FBI report to back up your point, what did they say to refute it?
                          "Only nothing is impossible."
                          - Grant Morrison

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bad Research... in development

                            Like one A list director told me... There is a reason readers are only making between $10-60 dollars a script. Most are failed writers and execs, producers who couldn't hack it. There are a few readers out there that I respect, but most are posers...
                            "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived." - General George S. Patton, Jr.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bad Research... in development

                              Originally posted by mswriterj View Post
                              It's a "clean" way to die, hanging. As far as I know, women don't like to leave messes.
                              I seem to recall that when hanged, the bowels empty. I might be thinking of something else. I dunno.

                              Code7... Can you confirm or refute?
                              sigpic

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