Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

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  • Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

    Since this is a writing board, I thought I might regularly post a few grammatical and stylistic pointers that arise from common errors that I see on the board. I am not singling out anybody. No names, no links, just some things to serve as teaching examples. How long will I do this? I don't know. If people feel that it is beneficial, I will continue.

    Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

    ORIGINAL:
    I was basing my character's dialogue off of several different writer's material.

    CORRECT:
    I was basing my character's dialogue on several different writers' material.

    DISCUSSION:
    (1) Correct preposition: *on*.
    (2) Possessive noun:
    The form *writer's* is the possessive of a single writer. If you are talking about more than one writer, the plural is *writers* and the possessive is *writers'*. Think of the meaning. You are really saying *material of several different writers*.

    To form the plural possessive:
    1. First make the noun plural.
    2. If the plural ends in *s*, then add an apostrophe after the *s*: writers (plural), writers' (plural possessive).
    3. If the plural does not end in *s*, then you add *'s* to the word, as in: men, men's; children, children's.
    The singular possessive is usually easy. You just add *'s* to the singular noun in most cases. If the singular already ends in *s* or an s-sound (Jesus, Moses, Laos, France, Francis, Sophocles, Gladys), the situation is a little more complex. I will save that discussion for another time.

    In the example, the writer used *character's*, which wold be the singular possessive. However, I think he really meant the plural, not the singular, and the form should have been *characters'*. If I am right in my assumption, then the meaning of the sentence was:

    I was basing the dialogue of my characters on material from several different writers.

    Sometimes the best way to handle the possessive, to avoid ambiguity, is to use the form *of + noun* instead of trying to make a possessive of the noun. This is what I did in my recasting of the sentence above.


    "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

  • #2
    Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

    TOMORROW'S TIP:

    Lay vs Lie
    The English verbs lay and lie are commonly confused by even native English speakers. I'm not lying when I say that you can now lay your fears of not knowing the difference to rest.


    Lay

    Lay is a transitive verb, which means that it must be used with a direct object. The past tense of lay is laid.

    Please lay the books on the table.
    I laid the books on the table.

    Have you ever seen a chicken lay an egg?
    The chicken just laid two eggs.

    "Now I lay me down to sleep..."
    He laid himself down to sleep.


    Lie

    Lie is an intransitive verb, which means it cannot have a direct object. The past tense of lie is lay.

    Lie down next to me.
    I lay down next to her.

    I just want to lie in bed all day.
    Yesterday, he lay in bed all day.

    Don't lie on the floor!
    I lay on the floor last week and you didn't say anything.

    Lie (past participle lied) means to say something untrue.

    Don't lie to me.
    He lied about where he got the money.


    The Bottom Line


    There are two problems here. One is that lie and lay mean more or less the same thing; it's just that lie is intransitive and lay is transitive. In addition, the past tense of lie is identical to the present tense lay. Just remember that in the present, you lie down/on/in, but you lay something. Once you've got that straight in your head, you just need to work on the past tenses and you'll be all set - no lie!

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    • #3
      Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

      So if one lies to get laid...?
      Hell of a Deal -- Political Film Blog

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

        Originally posted by NikeeGoddess View Post
        Lay

        Lay is a transitive verb, which means that it must be used with a direct object. The past tense of lay is laid.
        Lay lady, lay; lay across my big brass bed.

        Mmm... it still works. Not because of his grammar, but because he's a master craftsman.

        Pardon the digression. What I wanted to mention was usage for "would' and "should", and a personal irritation - the common use of "should of" and "would of" where "of" should be "have", i.e. "he should have."

        My hunch is that this mis-usage has arisen from the common truncation in "should've" which is short for "should have" but sounds like "should of," and because it sounds like "should of," people have assumed that that is the correct long form.
        "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

          i shorten it even more: shoulda, woulda, coulda... depending on who's doing the talking.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

            One of the mistakes that I've noticed many people make is the misuse of "then" and "than".
            "The Hollywood film business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S Thompson

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

              looked like an interesting thread but nuh, there ain't nothing here for me
              I heard the starting gun


              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

                I'm both embarrassed and flattered at the same time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Grammar/Style Tip

                  Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
                  Since this is a writing board, I thought I might regularly post a few grammatical and stylistic pointers that arise from common errors that I see on the board. I am not singling out anybody. No names, no links, just some things to serve as teaching examples. How long will I do this? I don't know. If people feel that it is beneficial, I will continue.

                  Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

                  ORIGINAL:
                  I was basing my character's dialogue off of several different writer's material.

                  CORRECT:
                  I was basing my character's dialogue on several different writers' material.

                  DISCUSSION:
                  (1) Correct preposition: *on*.


                  (2) Possessive noun:
                  The form *writer's* is the possessive of a single writer. If you are talking about more than one writer, the plural is *writers* and the possessive is *writers'*. Think of the meaning. You are really saying *material of several different writers*.
                  To form the plural possessive:
                  1. First make the noun plural.
                  2. If the plural ends in *s*, then add an apostrophe after the *s*: writers (plural), writers' (plural possessive).
                  3. If the plural does not end in *s*, then you add *'s* to the word, as in: men, men's; children, children's.

                  The singular possessive is usually easy. You just add *'s* to the singular noun in most cases. If the singular already ends in *s* or an s-sound (Jesus, Moses, Laos, France, Francis, Sophocles, Gladys), the situation is a little more complex. I will save that discussion for another time.
                  In the example, the writer used *character's*, which wold be the singular possessive. However, I think he really meant the plural, not the singular, and the form should have been *characters'*. If I am right in my assumption, then the meaning of the sentence was:
                  I was basing the dialogue of my characters on material from several different writers.
                  Sometimes the best way to handle the possessive, to avoid ambiguity, is to use the form *of + noun* instead of trying to make a possessive of the noun. This is what I did in my recasting of the sentence above.
                  Is "In God We Trust" grammatically correct?

                  I would suspect "On God We Trust" or "Upon God We Trust" would be more appropriate, but I am more suspicious of mottos, (or, mottoes), which capitalize the first letter of each word.
                  JEKYLL & CANADA (free .mp4 download @ Vimeo.com)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

                    Flip it around. "We trust upon God" or "We trust on God" doesn't sound right, does it?
                    Chicks Who Script podcast

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

                      Glad to see you're doing this. This stuff has been making me nuts since the advent of the internet, where we get to see all the mis-learned grammar, spelling and usage of our fellow English speakers. In addition to those already mentioned (its it's, lie lay laid, then than, should of/have), a few others I'm sure you'll want to cover in the future:

                      there
                      they're
                      their

                      affect
                      effect

                      advice
                      advise

                      your
                      you're
                      yore (hmm...)

                      were
                      where
                      we're

                      to
                      too

                      lead (almost universally mistaken for led)
                      led

                      here
                      hear

                      used to

                      whose
                      who's

                      loose
                      lose

                      sight
                      site
                      cite

                      averse
                      adverse

                      of
                      off

                      infer
                      imply

                      compliment
                      complement


                      Two great sites (sights in a broad sense...):

                      http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html

                      http://englishplus.com/grammar/contents.htm
                      Last edited by Donreel; 03-11-2011, 10:28 PM. Reason: add links

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

                        Two mistakes I see regularly in scripts and on boards:

                        1) WHO and THAT

                        People take who, and places and things take that:
                        He is the man who arrived late;
                        My sister is the one who said that;
                        Chicago is the town that is windy;
                        This is the house that she purchased; and

                        2) WISH and IF

                        Both take were and not was:
                        I wish I were talented; and
                        If only you were able to understand.
                        Last edited by Scriptonian; 03-12-2011, 07:00 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Grammar/Style Tip

                          Originally posted by emily blake View Post
                          Flip it around. "We trust upon God" or "We trust on God" doesn't sound right, does it?
                          Aha! To understand the American monetary system, one needs to flip the words around, tho I am still baffled by putting trust in God, rather than in a gold or silver standard, (ye olde bimetallic question). There's so much about American finances that mystifies me!

                          May the force be in you!
                          JEKYLL & CANADA (free .mp4 download @ Vimeo.com)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

                            Gee, I put up an academic, somewhat dry look at a grammar issue, and when I come back the next day I find two pages of comments.

                            I guess that's good.

                            My thanks to Scriptonian and Donreel for their encouragement. I would like to continue these short essays on grammatical issues.

                            Yes, the use of who instead of the appropriate that or which has become especially common in recent years. In modern parlance, it has gone viral. I will make that a subject of a Tip at some time.

                            I will post a couple of other Grammar Tips of the Day later tonight. I have already collected some samples from the board today. Again, I will use no names or links. This is not meant to embarrass anybody.

                            "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Grammar/Style Tip of the Day

                              Originally posted by emily blake View Post
                              Flip it around. "We trust upon God" or "We trust on God" doesn't sound right, does it?
                              If only prescriptive grammar were that straightforward. "None of the people is correct." Doesn't sound right, yet it is. (Or, it was.)

                              Comment

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