Tricking a loanshark into offering services to FBI (legal)

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  • Tricking a loanshark into offering services to FBI (legal)

    I have two questions:


    #1 First a legal question (regarding US laws).

    If someone tricked a loanshark or a bookie into thinking that an FBI agent had borrowed money/bet with him and now owes him money so the loanshark/bookie called the FBI agent and started demanding that the agent pay up on his debt, how would the law look upon this?

    To be clear, the FBI agent had not actually borrowed money or bet with this guy, but the guy is being made to think that he had, so now he is demanding he be paid on a non-existant debt which he thinks is from gambling or an illegal loan, which are activities he DOES engage in.

    Would this be something the guy could be prosecuted for? Or could it be used as proof that he is loansharking/running a sports book?


    #2

    The impression we get in mob pictures is that when someone is loansharking, running a sports book or a whorehouse everyone in the neighborhood knows about it. I'm wondering, if its that commonly known, why doesn't the FBI just waltz in, make a bet with the guy, take a loan or ask for a hooker and boom, they got em?

    Is there any impediment to this?

  • #2
    Re: Tricking a loanshark into offering services to FBI (legal)

    Originally posted by Dimitri001 View Post
    #1 First a legal question (regarding US laws).

    If someone tricked a loanshark or a bookie into thinking that an FBI agent had borrowed money/bet with him and now owes him money so the loanshark/bookie called the FBI agent and started demanding that the agent pay up on his debt, how would the law look upon this?

    To be clear, the FBI agent had not actually borrowed money or bet with this guy, but the guy is being made to think that he had, so now he is demanding he be paid on a non-existant debt which he thinks is from gambling or an illegal loan, which are activities he DOES engage in.

    Would this be something the guy could be prosecuted for? Or could it be used as proof that he is loansharking/running a sports book?
    no experienced bookie would likely be this dumb, but if they threaten the FBI agent with the intent of getting money out of them, it could be an assault -- depending how the threat is made. maybe even extortion but factual impossibility could be a defense for the bookie.


    #2

    The impression we get in mob pictures is that when someone is loansharking, running a sports book or a whorehouse everyone in the neighborhood knows about it. I'm wondering, if its that commonly known, why doesn't the FBI just waltz in, make a bet with the guy, take a loan or ask for a hooker and boom, they got em?
    garden-variety loansharking isn't likely to be a federal crime so enforcement's going to be at the state or city level. and even in cases where the feds might want to make a case out of it, e.g., building a RICO charge against a mobster, they would rather flip the street level guy and use them as a confidential informant to get to the people at the top of the pyramid. busting up a back room casino or brothel is small potatoes, enforcement wise

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    • #3
      Re: Tricking a loanshark into offering services to FBI (legal)

      [quote=Dimitri001;947221]I have two questions:


      #1 First a legal question (regarding US laws).

      If someone tricked a loanshark or a bookie into thinking that an FBI agent had borrowed money/bet with him and now owes him money so the loanshark/bookie called the FBI agent and started demanding that the agent pay up on his debt, how would the law look upon this?

      To be clear, the FBI agent had not actually borrowed money or bet with this guy, but the guy is being made to think that he had, so now he is demanding he be paid on a non-existant debt which he thinks is from gambling or an illegal loan, which are activities he DOES engage in.

      Would this be something the guy could be prosecuted for? Or could it be used as proof that he is loansharking/running a sports book?


      It's an extortionate credit collection practice and is a felony under Federal law. My brother used to practice this sort of law.
      Last edited by kenklmn; 03-01-2017, 12:41 AM. Reason: Clarification.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Tricking a loanshark into offering services to FBI (legal)

        [quote=kenklmn;947232]
        Originally posted by Dimitri001 View Post
        I have two questions:


        #1 First a legal question (regarding US laws).

        If someone tricked a loanshark or a bookie into thinking that an FBI agent had borrowed money/bet with him and now owes him money so the loanshark/bookie called the FBI agent and started demanding that the agent pay up on his debt, how would the law look upon this?

        To be clear, the FBI agent had not actually borrowed money or bet with this guy, but the guy is being made to think that he had, so now he is demanding he be paid on a non-existant debt which he thinks is from gambling or an illegal loan, which are activities he DOES engage in.

        Would this be something the guy could be prosecuted for? Or could it be used as proof that he is loansharking/running a sports book?


        It's an extortionate credit collection practice and is a felony under Federal law. My brother used to practice this sort of law.
        Even in this highly particular case? The particularity being that the bookie is making a mistake and this FBI agent never bet with him, the bookie THINKS he did, and he's calling him up to discuss when and how he'll be paying off his debt.

        Since you mention extortion, I guess the bookie would have to threaten him, right? I could go either way, story-wise, it could be a threatening call or just "hey, you should come to this place when you're ready to pay up."

        In my story, the FBI agent knows who this bookie is and he's mobbed up so if there's any way for the agent to lead him on and get him to incriminate himself he would, I just don't know what exactly the agent would try to get him to say since I don't know how it breaks down legally.

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        • #5
          Re: Tricking a loanshark into offering services to FBI (legal)

          I don't think a technical point of law would matter to most viewers or filmmakers. I say write your script your own way.

          There is a Sherlock Holmes story that hangs on a dog not barking. I don't think that would hold up in court and yet it is a very successful story.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tricking a loanshark into offering services to FBI (legal)

            Originally posted by kenklmn View Post
            I don't think a technical point of law would matter to most viewers or filmmakers. I say write your script your own way.

            There is a Sherlock Holmes story that hangs on a dog not barking. I don't think that would hold up in court and yet it is a very successful story.
            That's a good point. Still, I'd like to be accurate.

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