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  • #31
    Originally posted by gardnuk View Post
    I gotta ask---what exactly is Unicode? I think I know but I don't know. LOL.)
    I don't know the exact definition myself, but it's an international standard that allows you to write in any language. For me it just means that I can use an em dash "—" instead of double hyphens "--" in a screenplay. But, by using Unicode I can type Cyrillic and Latin alphabets in the same document (one example).

    English: "This is Unicode." Russian: "Это Юникод." Hebrew: "זהו יוניקוד" Japanese: "これはUnicodeです" (I'm just going to Google Translate.) If you're using ASCII you're basically limited to English (or mostly unaccented Latin) letters.

    To me it doesn't mean much — basically why the lack of Unicode in Trelby isn't that big of a deal to me.

    But most modern editors and word processors support Unicode now.
    STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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    • #32
      writerduet is one I use in my both computers. It both has an app you can download or work from the web. I know for apple users, you can get it. But not sure about Android.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by hannahevans7 View Post
        writerduet is one I use in my both computers. It both has an app you can download or work from the web. I know for apple users, you can get it. But not sure about Android.
        Indeed, Writerduet is in the Android Play Store.
        Results posted for the Halloween 2020 contest
        in Writing Exercises forum

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        • #34
          So far I do like it. But it's not my Movie Magic software I have.

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          • #35
            FWIW, I've been using Final Draft for 20+ years and never had an issue.

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            • #36
              I downloaded Trelby a couple of days ago. I tested it just now. You can enter accented, umlauted, and other special Western characters, like Señor García and he was in the Straße. But you cannot use the em-dash (and that is a deal breaker for me). The reason, I think, is that the em-dash (like a double-long hyphen) occupies code 0151 (decimal) in the ASCII/ANSI system that Windows uses. It was not part of the original ASCII standard (it should have been). Trelby only uses the original ASCII chart (0151 was left blank in the original).

              I have been using computers since 1985. I had to load Trelby THREE times just now to make it work right (Windows 10). I could move the cursor with the mouse, but the keyboard would not input any characters and would not delete anything. It is a shame that the developers (there were basically two when the name was changed to Trelby) abandoned the program.

              Unicode ... You need it if you write in a non-Western language that uses a weird (i.e., non-Latin) alphabet, or even one that is basically Western but has special characters, like Polish, which has several things that require Unicode. And then, of course, the Russian alphabet is totally different, but its alphabet is part of Unicode.

              EDIT to add: I remember when the developers of Trelby were thinking about a new name (it was not called Trelby then). They decided on *Trelby* and picked a hat for the icon. That was fine, except that the word is *Trilby*, not *Trelby*. I do not know if they were trying to be cute, or if they were just ignorant. But it was ridiculous.

              "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                FWIW, I've been using Final Draft for 20+ years and never had an issue.
                Yeah, FD has been my go-to and never has been much of a problem. It's fashionable to crap on it, I guess, but I never really understood why.

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                • #38
                  I bought final draft right after I bought The Screenwriter's Bible... I wanted to save any worries about format. I've never been sorry and have never been tempted to switch to open source software. I still love it-- even with its occasional glitches. Not as prevalent as they used to be with FD7. The stress free formatting suits my temperament.
                  "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
                    I downloaded Trelby a couple of days ago. I tested it just now. You can enter accented, umlauted, and other special Western characters, like Señor García and he was in the Straße. But you cannot use the em-dash (and that is a deal breaker for me). The reason, I think, is that the em-dash (like a double-long hyphen) occupies code 0151 (decimal) in the ASCII/ANSI system that Windows uses. It was not part of the original ASCII standard (it should have been). Trelby only uses the original ASCII chart (0151 was left blank in the original).
                    Nope, no Unicode. As is, If I feel I need em dashes, I just export to Fountain, replace double hyphens with em dashes and create the PDF in 'Afterwriting CLI. The process takes about 15-20 seconds. Normally it's not that big of a deal for me, I just use the double hyphens.

                    Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
                    I have been using computers since 1985. I had to load Trelby THREE times just now to make it work right (Windows 10). I could move the cursor with the mouse, but the keyboard would not input any characters and would not delete anything. It is a shame that the developers (there were basically two when the name was changed to Trelby) abandoned the program.
                    Sorry to hear that. Zero issues in Linux. I have tried it in Windows, I don't recall having any issues, but I don't know if I've ever tried it in Windows 10 — so that might be the difference.

                    Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
                    Unicode ... You need it if you write in a non-Western language that uses a weird (i.e., non-Latin) alphabet, or even one that is basically Western but has special characters, like Polish, which has several things that require Unicode. And then, of course, the Russian alphabet is totally different, but its alphabet is part of Unicode.
                    I understand. But I don't write with the Cyrillic alphabet. If I knew Python well enough to upgrade Trelby, I would add Unicode support.

                    Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
                    EDIT to add: I remember when the developers of Trelby were thinking about a new name (it was not called Trelby then). They decided on *Trelby* and picked a hat for the icon. That was fine, except that the word is *Trilby*, not *Trelby*. I do not know if they were trying to be cute, or if they were just ignorant. But it was ridiculous.
                    Look at it this way. When you do a Google search for "trelby" you instantly find the screenwriting software. And that's all you find. If they had named it "trilby" it would have been lost in all the references to hats. Whether it was intentional or a mistake, it's worked out well for them. Trelby is a still a popular choice on the Reddit Screenplay "subreddit" and is well known. I was a beta tester (I think in 2003) for what became "Blyte" (the original name for the software that became Trelby). I told the publisher that Blyte wasn't a very good name (at least not in English) and suggested he name it Fade In or Smash Cut instead. But he liked Blyte and kept the name and Fade In Pro showed up some eight years later. I'm still waiting for someone to use Smash Cut.

                    STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                      FWIW, I've been using Final Draft for 20+ years and never had an issue.
                      In my Windows' days I never used Final Draft enough to know if it was stable or not. What I didn't like about it was that it felt and looked too much like Word, which I hated. Besides I was already happy with Movie Magic Screenwriter — which is what I would probably still be using if I still used Windows.

                      There's also the issue of initial cost and the price of upgrades for Final Draft. I realize it's a (small) business expense for those who get paid for writing, but a completely unnecessary expense for "nobody" (wannabe) hobbyists.
                      Last edited by Centos; 10-20-2020, 03:24 AM.
                      STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by docgonzo View Post

                        Yeah, FD has been my go-to and never has been much of a problem. It's fashionable to crap on it, I guess, but I never really understood why.
                        I don't really crap on it, I just think it's an unnecessary expense for new (wannabe) writers. Just about any screenplay application (all cheaper than Final Draft) can produce well formatted screenplay PDFs.
                        STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
                          I have been using computers since 1985. I had to load Trelby THREE times just now to make it work right (Windows 10). I could move the cursor with the mouse, but the keyboard would not input any characters and would not delete anything. It is a shame that the developers (there were basically two when the name was changed to Trelby) abandoned the program.
                          I installed Trelby on my wife's Windows 10 laptop to see if I could replicate your issue. So far no "luck." Is this something that happens all the time for you or just that once? I haven't heard about this issue in the past, so I'm curious about it.
                          STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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                          • #43
                            I can't duplicate that problem either, I've written a couple of short scripts using Trelby and it worked just fine.

                            I wonder if it's a compatibility issue. I use an older version of Word which Windows 10 just did not like, Word would randomly freeze in mid-keystroke. Other users had reported the same thing on forums. I right-clicked on the Word icon, selected Properties, selected the Compatibility tab, and tick-selected "Run this program in compatibility mode for... Windows Vista." No problems after that. When I installed Trelby I did the same thing because it's an older program.

                            My big (and only) moan with Trelby is that I can't find a zoom option. Text is gorram tiny. Yes I upped the font sizes as a workaround.
                            Results posted for the Halloween 2020 contest
                            in Writing Exercises forum

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by dpaterso View Post
                              My big (and only) moan with Trelby is that I can't find a zoom option. Text is gorram tiny. Yes I upped the font sizes as a workaround.
                              Upping the size of the display fonts is the only "zoom option" in Trelby. It works for me, though. As mentioned earlier, Trelby does some things oddly. For example copy/paste is only for copying from one Trelby document to another. If you want to copy from, or paste to, another application, you use System Copy or System Paste. But the Trelby creators redeemed themselves a little by giving us the option to System Copy Formatted Text. As far as I can tell, that feature is unique to Trelby. I regularly use it.
                              STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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                              • #45
                                About the issue (which I reported) that Trelby was not working:

                                I have not been able to reproduce the problem, either. But it really did happen.

                                Whatever.

                                I am going to agree with the proposition that Trelby is a good option (maybe the best option) if you really INSIST on having a free program. You just have to accept its primitiveness and its shortcomings.
                                • You cannot apply font formatting like bold, italics, and underline (or at least I could not find a way, and when the question of how to make a word bold came up on the Internet several years ago, the answer was that you cannot do it). Bummer.
                                • Fountain import: Trelby leaves the special codes in place (like a period to start a forced Scene Heading, an exclamation point to force an Action line), but it does at least "force" these elements. Consequently you can type (without the angle brackets) something like: <.Mansion on Mossy Lane> and the period will force the line to be a Scene Heading even though it does not otherwise meet the criteria for a Scene Heading. You can remove the period and the ! at the start of a lines when you edit in Trelby. There will not be many of these.
                                • Although I really like the way Trelby displays notes, you apparently cannot hide a note. The notes are similar to those in Movie Magic Screenwriter — easy to read! What I dislike about notes in most programs is that the text is too small and the text box for the note is really too damn small. I have on occasion taken a script that someone sent to me, converted it to Fountain, done my notes in Fountain, and then used Fade In to convert the script back to Final Draft (which is the usual format in which the script comes to me).
                                • No Unicode, of course, but at least Trelby takes a Fountain file with em-dashes like this — and converts them to double hyphens (the old typewriter way to show an em-dash).
                                Happy writing.

                                ADDENDUM: While I was writing the above, I checked some things in Trelby. At one point I imported a Fountain file. No problem. But when I changed an element type from Scene Heading to Action (an experiment), Trelby once again would not let me enter any text anywhere (I could move the cursor). It was the same problem as before. But, of course, when I restarted the program and tried to reproduce the problem, everything worked fine. And I tried to reproduce the problem a couple of times after that, but everything worked fine. So the issue appears to crop up only rarely.


                                "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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