Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

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  • #61
    Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

    Originally posted by Jon Jay View Post
    Cheers - will do. Only downloaded it yesterday so I should probably play around with it a bit more. I've always used programs with Alt+C/D/A for swapping between elements, rather than Tab/Return. But the extra features of FIPro are worth re-training my muscles for, I guess.

    I did find that the problem above can be circumnavigated by switching off auto-complete - not ideal, but I tend to retype names etc instinctively anyway, so I can live without it if necessary.
    My feature request is to be able to map the keys to whatever you want. This is standard on many programs. Hopefully it makes its way to Fade In Pro!

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    • #62
      Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

      About the Windows version: Is there any chance that, in future releases, the bottom scroll bar will be hidden when it's not necessary? This is the standard behavior of most Windows apps, saves some vertical space and would make an already nice interface even nicer.

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      • #63
        Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

        Let me look into that. (It should behave like you describe -*and does on OS X, for instance. I'll have to see if there's something that's not being done/some reason for that behavior.)

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        • #64
          Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

          In Linux the scroll bar would also behave as expected, so it seems a Windows-specific issue. If I remember correctly, Final Draft for Windows would also show the bottom scroll bar at all times, even when there was no need for it because of the zoom level.

          I had written:

          I've got a question: in the notes of version 1.2.457, one of the new features is described as "customizable scene time separator." I take it this means one can have characters other than a hyphen before the DAY, NIGHT, etc., like an em dash. So far I haven't found out how to do this. Am I that much of a tool or have I misunderstood something?
          I guess I AM that much of a tool. If anybody else can't find this feature, it's in Format/Roster> Other tab> Scene times (drop-down menu)>Separator

          Okay, so I've set it as " – " (space-en dash-space, without the quote marks). The problem I'm seeing is that now when I write a scene heading, let's say INT. LIVING ROOM, and click TAB to choose the time of the day, the en dash appears but there's no list of times of the day to choose from nor autocomplete when I start to type.

          I'm using Fade In v.1.2.458, OS is Windows 7 Ultimate 32bit.

          EDIT TO ADD: another issue after I've set the custom scene time separator is that if I write the following scene heading:

          INT. LIVING ROOM – NIGHT

          "LIVING ROOM – NIGHT" seems to get recognized as a location, and will show as autocomplete option the ext time I type: INT. L

          When using a hyphen to separate location from time, the autocomplete option is "LIVING ROOM", as it should.
          Last edited by ; 12-02-2013, 12:34 PM.

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          • #65
            Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

            Dr. Vergerus,

            I did not try to follow the details of everything that you were saying about the dash, but I will make a couple of observations.

            I am a big fan of using real dashes instead of the typewriter convention of a hyphen or two hyphens (and I think that two hyphens look hideous as a "dash").

            However, screenwriting programs have problems with real dashes for various reasons. In general, the code seems to be written in a way that expects a hyphen or two hyphens. Use of another character has an ill effect on something that the program is supposed to do, somewhere along the way.

            A second thing I want to say is that the "en dash" is not the proper character to use in any case. Instead, the "em dash" is the dash that one would use as a dash separator. The "en dash" is generally used in two situations: (1) to provide a numeric range, as in 3-8 (I just used a hyphen there); and (2) as a joining dash in compounds that have two unjoined words, as in: his New York-based company (I used a hyphen there).

            My last comment: Unfortunately, Unicode does not use the exact same numbering for characters that became common with the Microsoft adaptation of the standard Latin-1 code page. Microsoft changed the standard Latin-1 code page in a range of characters (128-159) that were not in common use, in order to make places for things like the en- and em-dashes. Consequently the codes for the en-dash and em-dash are 0150 and 0151, respectively.

            The consequence of this is ... well, I do not know what the plan is as software programs migrate to Unicode. We certainly need to keep the real dashes available. Unicode has numbers for these, and I assume that software developers will incorporate the Unicode ranges for the dashes and other useful Unicode characters. In the meantime, I just advise people to use the simple Courier hyphen (a single hyphen, with a space before and after it, for the em-dash; and a single hyphen, without spaces, for the joining en-dash). It makes life a lot simpler when you try to convert to other formats. Trelby, for example, does not handle real dashes or curly quotes. I think that Fade In Pro uses Unicode, so I suspect that the problem that arises when you use the en-dash probably relates to a glitch in the code; it is something that can be corrected.

            In working with scripts (revising, polishing them), I have run into all kinds of messes involving dashes. I once worked on a script that had a mixture of hyphens, en-dashes, and em-dashes. Fortunately, the Courier hyphen is broad enough that it can do double duty as a hyphen and a dash.

            Best ...

            "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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            • #66
              Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

              Thanks for all that information, ComicBent.

              According to MS Word, Unicode for an en dash is 2013; em dash is 2014.

              I used the en dash to try this new feature in Fade In because, with Courier Screenplay, there doesn't seem to be a difference in length between both dashes.

              I must say I always have doubts about which dash to use (we don't have such things in Spanish; we have the hyphen and the horizontal bar instead, but they aren't used exactly as the English dashes). I've seen different uses of both dashes in printed books (as I've think we've discussed before in some other thread); both em or en dashes with or without spaces around, thus:

              word – word
              word—word
              word — word

              There doesn't seem to be a consensus on which is the proper way. Differences between British and American books, differences among different publishers within the same country, etc.

              I'm with you on not liking too much seeing double hyphens instead of dashes in screenplays. I've noticed several recent(ish) scripts that use em dashes instead, and I think it works well. If we have now access to the proper characters, why not use them? What I don't like so much is using ellipses instead of three dots, at least with monospaced fonts; maybe it'll be a matter of getting used.

              Cheers.

              Btw, if I remember correctly, Fade In has full Unicode support (I think it's the only screenwriting app that does).

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              • #67
                Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                Short answer: the customizable time separator is new(ish), as is the related problem you're seeing with autocompletion (which will be fixed in the next update).

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                • #68
                  Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                  Great. Would you prefer that bugs were reported to you directly or is it okay to do it here?

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                  • #69
                    Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                    Either is fine. Here works well epecially if it's an issue or feature that might bear some discussion. (Of course here doesn't get checked as often as email.)

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                    • #70
                      Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                      It is a correct statement that you often do not see much of a difference, if any, among the three characters (hyphen, en-, em-dash) in Courier fonts. Courier Final Draft: hyphen and en-dash look the same; Courier Screenplay: en- and em-dash look the same. This arises from the condition that Courier is a monospaced font. You would have to make the hyphen rather narrow to have any space left over to create two other dashes that are different from each other and from the hyphen. It just is not practical.

                      But as for use ... In the US, the accepted practice is to use the en-dash and the em-dash in the manner that I described in my previous post. Of course, these are not matters of law, just custom. Those of us with the knowledge and the eye for such things really do notice whether a numeric range (7-10) has the proper en-dash or a simple hyphen. The same for compounds like *Civil War-era weapon*, where the en-dash is the appropriate typographic choice. I used hyphens here, just to avoid any issues that might arise from different browsers.

                      I have seen high-quality fonts that had somewhat narrower glyphs for the dashes, so that when I saw them in use in an example, I really had no way of knowing for sure whether the dash was an en-dash or an em-dash. It looked short enough to be an en-dash, but I was not sure. So if I cannot tell the difference, what does it matter? It matters when the text gets converted into another font, and the unusually short em-dash suddenly becomes a rather long stroke that really is twice as long as the shorty em-dash in the first font. It is important to use the correct character if you can.

                      My commendation to Fade In Pro for his quick answers and his remarkably cooperative and helpful attitude toward changes that can be made in the program.

                      Nice conversation.

                      Best ...

                      "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                        HP's Dark Courier has different characters for hyphen, en dash and em dash. As you say, the hyphen is very narrow. It's a very nice font, although I don't like its curly quotes and commas and periods look a bit anemic.

                        And yes, Fade In rules, not just the app (which is great) but especially the customer support and willingness to listen and respond to user feedback.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                          Yes, Dark Courier, which is a free font (released for free by Hewlett-Packard many years ago), succeeds in distinguishing among the three characters. The font is pretty good overall, though to me it has a bit of a squared-off appearance, sort of like the look of the IBM-Selectric typewriter font back in the 1970s. It displays well on screen and prints out well. The curly quotes are the drawback, though they are like the ones in Courier New.

                          "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                            Courier Screenplay is my current favorite Courier. Courier Prime would be it if the italics were slanted and not proper italics, which I find don't stand out enough to be effectively used for emphasis.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                              The small issues with the custom scene time separator have been fixed with today's update. That was quick!

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                              • #75
                                Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                                Fade In keeps raising the bar: with the newest update, PDF import has been added.

                                I've tried it with a couple of scripts and it worked very well.

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